Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Skullduggery Fatigue

959 replies

RedToothBrush · 04/09/2019 22:19

A recap as best I can

Johnson-Cummings wanted an election. Their entire strategy was based on getting one before 31st Oct to get a majority to force No Deal through and retain power for 5 years.

They protested they didn't. They poked and tried to provoke and outrage in order to get one

But the trap was spotted.

The Commons instead voted to give power to parliament to control the timetable in order to try and block no deal.

This came at a high price for 21 Tory rebels who have been kicked out of the party ungraciously and without an ounce of the respect that the HoC usually demands despite differences of opinion and its pantomime jeers.

This combined with Johnson's prorogation (and what seems to be lying to the Queen in order to get her consent if the Cherry case to block prorogation seems to be suggesting) has shocked and enraged Tory 'moderates'.

Johnson under estimated the size of the rebellion and his threat to deselect seemed to spur on rebels rather than deter them, as it made them perceive Johnson as a threat to democracy and the constitution more than if he'd taken a softer line.

He also seems to have underestimated the internal reaction amongst those who remained loyal to the party. One MP is on record saying Johnson can't take his vote for granted. At the 1922 committee MPs who stood up for the rebels were cheered whilst those who stood up for government jeered. Johnson blamed his whip for the expulsions rather than take responsibility himself which again hasn't gone down well. The chair of the One Nation Tories Damien Green has written to the PM demanding their reinstatement so all is definitely not well. Johnson has ploughed on with the selection of the rebels replacements nonetheless. The idea was to strengthen Johnson and end the internal tory civil war but his heavy handed approach doesn't seem to have settled matters yet at least. Tonight Caroline Spelman joined the rebellion but hasn't been expelled from the party, which makes last nights hard line look even worse.

The bill to block no deal passed the Commons and has gone to the lords. The Kinnock Amendment to try and return May's deal passed in an act of government skullduggery designed to sink the bill completely but thus does not seem to have paid off and may yet provide an emergency escape route from no deal. It highlights the extent Johnson will use dirty tricks.

Tonight the vote was for a GE. Under the Fixed Term Parliament Act the government needed 2/3rds of parliament to trigger one.

Labour, figuring it was a trap, havent bitten. Instead they have made preconditions to triggering one.

This scuppers Johnson's plan and its not clear where we go from here. Johnson us a lame duck but has the power of the PM's office.

He can create a vision that it's the people v parliament to help him for when we do have a GE which is now all but inevitable. This is dangerous.

But no deal is dangerous too.

The stakes are high.

Hopefully the no deal bill will pass the lords though may be hampered all weekend by filibustering.

It returns to the Commons on Monday where it needs to pass.

Then we are expecting prorogation to commence.

For Johnson who needed a GE on the 15th, Monday is his last day to trigger it. Expect more dirty tricks but he's running out of options

Come mid October the pressure for a deal will ramp up on Johnson. No deal is still the default but he will have to be seen to be doing something, not just blaming everyone else and taking no responsibility himself.

Will prorogation go ahead in these circumstances? It's now open to debate...

Johnson-Cummings strategy still could work, but it's substantially weakened and now Johnson will have to do something more radical and possibly illegal to get his own way.

And that General Election before the fall out if No Deal is still his ultimate goal as its his gateway to retain power...

... Expect even more fireworks to come.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
28
MockersthefeMANist · 05/09/2019 17:55

The Food Bank?

Is that the one where they park their converible BMWs outsde with the engine running while they run in and out?

(Copyright Edwina Currie)

DarkAtEndOfUK · 05/09/2019 17:55

I've wondered a couple of times lately if Theresa May will find herself back in the Tory hotseat. She'd probably be graceful about it.

Did anyone pick up on Dame Caroline Spelman's reason for standing down - the abuse she's received over Brexit? We're asking a lot for anyone to become a public figure in these times.

DarkAtEndOfUK · 05/09/2019 17:55

BCF, London would find itself in trouble with no food and water supplies. Or even much power.

RedToothBrush · 05/09/2019 17:55

Dr Nicholl on the BBC now.

He's come down to parliament with a megaphone to ask Mogg to come outside and repeat what he said under privilege so that he can sue Mogg.

OP posts:
thecatfromjapan · 05/09/2019 17:57

Oh, BigChoc, don't I know.

And, as for independence ... I'm so, so jealous of Scotland ...

Hoooo · 05/09/2019 17:58

Yep. That's the one!

The clients I had today included a widow with young kids and a woman with MH issues who is homeless.

^ perhaps their beamer was parked round the corner??

RedToothBrush · 05/09/2019 18:00

Lewis Goodall@lewis_goodall
Boris Johnson says he'd "rather be dead in a ditch" than ask for an Article 50 extension.

He cannot do it. This is going to explode.

He has just given the Opposition the perfect incentive to forgo an election and keep him in place. Because when the law passes if he cannot abide by it or find a way around, he has to resign.

Left wing scot @leftwingscot
He did refuse to answer if he would resign though, Twice.

I must admit I thought there was a couple of moments during the press conference that I thought he was on the verge of hinting that he'd resign.

OP posts:
OublietteBravo · 05/09/2019 18:00

.

Westminstenders: Skullduggery Fatigue
BigChocFrenzy · 05/09/2019 18:01

The other parties have so many great lines and photos to use in a GE:

from the aristocratic JRM lying (in every sense) across the HoC benches

to BJ saying of the Milibands:
"If your own brother doesn't trust you to act in the national interest why should all of we?"

and then they can dissect all of BJ's buffoonery and contradictions

and go into the hundreds of millions that Tory donors and MPs stand to make after No Deal.

A Tory GE win with working majority is by no means a formality, even though it is the most likely outcome

Solewindow · 05/09/2019 18:02

Is it a coincidence that this is his 'wakefield' speech given JRMs Wakefield comments? Oddly enough this isn't trending on Twitter...

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 05/09/2019 18:02

So BJ speech was in effect a Party Election Broadcast by the party of law and order. He was using the recruits to back up the image as he couldn’t do that in a real election broadcast.

RedToothBrush · 05/09/2019 18:02

Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
Boris Johnson's day from hell:
1. Brother Jo walks out on him, suggesting he's not acting in national interest
2. Has to blow out the Queen to spend only one night in Balmoral
3. Female police cadet collapses behind him having stood in line for an hour waiting

OP posts:
Icantreachthepretzels · 05/09/2019 18:03

I certainly don't assume the WA would pass
I give it 50:50

It's just the only sure way of stopping No Deal, it it passes

So the question becomes what's more likely to pass - the straight W.A or the W.A with a P.V attached? Yes there are plenty of MPs who don't want a P.V ... but there are far more who hate the W.A.

If the W.A ever passes it will be done on opposition votes (because the ERG aren't voting for it) - which, as it is a hard right disastrous tory brexit, will destroy them. They have everything to lose by voting it through - even if they claim they had no choice. They will be told they did have a choice - they should have insisted they let us vote on it - they should have resisted - they should have asked for another extension. It doesn't even matter if that's fair - it's what people will say. The worse brexit bites, the more they will be blamed for giving in.

Meanwhile those that don't want no deal or a P.V don't actually have anything to lose by offering a P.V. If they are assured they can campaign their way and they won't be deselected, they have nothing to worry about apart from losing, they can tell their leave voting constituents they didn't want this but as long as everyone votes leave the result of 2016 will still be respected. People who vote by rosette won't punish them for their stance and leave voters who vote by the candidate won't have a reason to punish them.

Someone has to shift - but the continuing assumption is that it should be (and people hope will be) the majority in opposition who hate the W.A that capitulate, and not the few in opposition who don't want a P.V.

I just don't understand why that is. Someone has to bend - why not the anti-P.Vers?

ARoomWithoutADoor · 05/09/2019 18:03

Just put Sky news on:

Why is BoJo standing at a podium with a load of Police behind him???

BigChocFrenzy · 05/09/2019 18:03

Good for Dr Nicholl !

JRM disgracefully abused his privilege of immunity as an MP Angry

This Tory govt contains so many utter shits, but he is one of the most blatant

howabout · 05/09/2019 18:04

BCF you do make me laugh. Grin Wine My view is more cynical than you give me credit for. All politicians, even the ones I agree with, are equally Machiavellian. In fact I am sometimes deluded enough to think / hope the ones I agree with are worse - see my comments on JMD trying to lose the GE this morning.

I could equally some with eulogising any who happen to agree with them. Andrew Neil was somewhat gobsmacked at the support from Labour Remainers for eg Soames as am I. The other side of the coin is unreservedly condemning anyone who doesn't happen to agree on EU membership which I am disinclined to do - very recently Jess Phillips declared JRM was one of her favourite MPs despite their differences. I respect her for that. Anna Soubry describing him as a right wing nutter or words similar just makes me switch off. I remember her fiercely loyal to every Cameron / Osborne cut and she still is.

Re Boris in Yorkshire. Yorkshire voted Brexit so if they had to pick a brother .... They are also famously short on words which probably explains Boris' terse communications.

RedToothBrush · 05/09/2019 18:05

Nicolas Hurd standing down at next election. He's currently Minister of State for NI.

OP posts:
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 05/09/2019 18:06

ARoom
Police cadets passing out ceremony

(Not at all staged to play to the party of law and order image - oh no not at all...)

thecatfromjapan · 05/09/2019 18:06

I think, yes, Chaz, that was the aim.

But it just looks like, 'In the event of No Deal, there will be curfews, the military will run local authorities, and we are your new overlords.'

Not sure it was quite the joyful 'Thatcher in a tank' picture he was hoping for.

ARoomWithoutADoor · 05/09/2019 18:07

Sorry, is it upthread?

But, WTAF??? Why all the rows of Police (some with odd expressions?)

howabout · 05/09/2019 18:07

Luciana forgot to delete her numerous tweets condemning LibDems as "Tories in disguise" before she joined them - oops Blush

Rhubarbisevil · 05/09/2019 18:08

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

thecatfromjapan · 05/09/2019 18:08

Ican't There won't be a PV with the WA.

Any PV on the WA would have to be before the WA.

RedToothBrush · 05/09/2019 18:09

Alan Reed @alanreedtv
Questions will be asked about appropriateness of that press conference. PCC said to be v unhappy. We're seeking comment from Chief Constable

OP posts:
ARoomWithoutADoor · 05/09/2019 18:10

Thanks Chaz - sorry my ancient laptop froze...

I just thought he looks like he's expecting trouble...

Police state / autocratic rule etc... What an idiot he is.

Swipe left for the next trending thread