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Brexit

Westminstenders: Skullduggery Fatigue

959 replies

RedToothBrush · 04/09/2019 22:19

A recap as best I can

Johnson-Cummings wanted an election. Their entire strategy was based on getting one before 31st Oct to get a majority to force No Deal through and retain power for 5 years.

They protested they didn't. They poked and tried to provoke and outrage in order to get one

But the trap was spotted.

The Commons instead voted to give power to parliament to control the timetable in order to try and block no deal.

This came at a high price for 21 Tory rebels who have been kicked out of the party ungraciously and without an ounce of the respect that the HoC usually demands despite differences of opinion and its pantomime jeers.

This combined with Johnson's prorogation (and what seems to be lying to the Queen in order to get her consent if the Cherry case to block prorogation seems to be suggesting) has shocked and enraged Tory 'moderates'.

Johnson under estimated the size of the rebellion and his threat to deselect seemed to spur on rebels rather than deter them, as it made them perceive Johnson as a threat to democracy and the constitution more than if he'd taken a softer line.

He also seems to have underestimated the internal reaction amongst those who remained loyal to the party. One MP is on record saying Johnson can't take his vote for granted. At the 1922 committee MPs who stood up for the rebels were cheered whilst those who stood up for government jeered. Johnson blamed his whip for the expulsions rather than take responsibility himself which again hasn't gone down well. The chair of the One Nation Tories Damien Green has written to the PM demanding their reinstatement so all is definitely not well. Johnson has ploughed on with the selection of the rebels replacements nonetheless. The idea was to strengthen Johnson and end the internal tory civil war but his heavy handed approach doesn't seem to have settled matters yet at least. Tonight Caroline Spelman joined the rebellion but hasn't been expelled from the party, which makes last nights hard line look even worse.

The bill to block no deal passed the Commons and has gone to the lords. The Kinnock Amendment to try and return May's deal passed in an act of government skullduggery designed to sink the bill completely but thus does not seem to have paid off and may yet provide an emergency escape route from no deal. It highlights the extent Johnson will use dirty tricks.

Tonight the vote was for a GE. Under the Fixed Term Parliament Act the government needed 2/3rds of parliament to trigger one.

Labour, figuring it was a trap, havent bitten. Instead they have made preconditions to triggering one.

This scuppers Johnson's plan and its not clear where we go from here. Johnson us a lame duck but has the power of the PM's office.

He can create a vision that it's the people v parliament to help him for when we do have a GE which is now all but inevitable. This is dangerous.

But no deal is dangerous too.

The stakes are high.

Hopefully the no deal bill will pass the lords though may be hampered all weekend by filibustering.

It returns to the Commons on Monday where it needs to pass.

Then we are expecting prorogation to commence.

For Johnson who needed a GE on the 15th, Monday is his last day to trigger it. Expect more dirty tricks but he's running out of options

Come mid October the pressure for a deal will ramp up on Johnson. No deal is still the default but he will have to be seen to be doing something, not just blaming everyone else and taking no responsibility himself.

Will prorogation go ahead in these circumstances? It's now open to debate...

Johnson-Cummings strategy still could work, but it's substantially weakened and now Johnson will have to do something more radical and possibly illegal to get his own way.

And that General Election before the fall out if No Deal is still his ultimate goal as its his gateway to retain power...

... Expect even more fireworks to come.

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DGRossetti · 05/09/2019 17:25

Gove was deliberately playing dumb about the burner phone. She was having none of his stalling.

Is it possible it was done to inform the viewer without being condescending ?

I read somewhere that when judges ask outré questions in cases, it's not because they aren't au fait with modern life, but to ensure the jury are aware without necessarily insulting them ...

Who are the Beatles ?
A popular beat combo your honour (or whatever)

Otherwise the whole trial could have been compromised because a juror thought someone had an insect problem ....

Singasonga · 05/09/2019 17:26

You really are determined to smear any and every MP who gets in the way of your Brexit without a backstop or FOM

I'm still chortling over the assertion that BJ ever had a genuine plan to create a new WA "with no backstop" but all the other nasty countries wouldn't play ball. C'mon, we weren't born yesterday.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 05/09/2019 17:26

Wtaf is going on with all those police officers?

Cherrypi · 05/09/2019 17:27

He can't deliver a speech.

TemporaryPermanent · 05/09/2019 17:27

Struggling to keep up. Gloomily hoping that we get the WA instead of no deal. Gloomily expecting that the Tories will say that was the strategy all along.

DGRossetti · 05/09/2019 17:27

He doesn't have Churchill's advantage of a war which united the whole country - and which still wasn't enough to get him elected in 1945

I think "not elected" is a tad understating the scale of the hammering he - and the Tories - got. ("The King thought the people 'ungrateful'" - although it's telling no one recorded what the people thought. Thus it ever was ....)

BigChocFrenzy · 05/09/2019 17:29

pretzels If they had the numbers, I'd love that proposal
but we both (should) know they don't

Don't make howabout's (deliberate) mistake of confusing the Anti-No Deal Alliance with a Remain Alliance.

The Ayes last night included about 20 Lexiters who would not support the GNU re Remain or a PV
and many others who think it would gift the GE to BJ

thecatfromjapan · 05/09/2019 17:30

Well.
I think that Wakefield picture gives us a snapshot of what 5 more Johnson years will look like. ☹️

MockersthefeMANist · 05/09/2019 17:30

BJ is making a habit of standing behind the Lion & Unicorn to make party political speeches.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/09/2019 17:31

A plan that relies on the EU committing suicide is not a serious plan

LouiseCollins28 · 05/09/2019 17:31

"I fought the Law. The Law Won" just popped into my head for some reason Grin

RedToothBrush · 05/09/2019 17:31

Jane merrick @ janemerrick23
Is the Prime Minister alright?

Theo Usherwood @theousherwood
This speech from Boris Johnson is seriously strange.

It’s like the energy has been sucked out of him.

It’s all gone.

Steve Hawkes @steve_hawkes
Strong message here

Dawn Foster @dawnhfoster
Wow, Johnson’s completely rattled and all over the place

Peter Walker @peterwalker99
Has Boris Johnson left his speech on the train to Wakefield? What's going on?

Or did Dominic Cummings give him a glass of red on the trip from London?

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BigChocFrenzy · 05/09/2019 17:31

"BJ is making a habit of standing behind the Lion & Unicorn to make party political speeches. "

The last refuge of a scoundrel ...

DGRossetti · 05/09/2019 17:32

"I fought the Law. The Law Won" just popped into my head for some reason

Clampdown was where I was going ...

RedToothBrush · 05/09/2019 17:32

Not that it matters. His supporters aren't watching this press conference.

It can be edited for FB and he's got the right photo shoot

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MockersthefeMANist · 05/09/2019 17:33

"I fought the Law. The Law Won"

Police & Theives in the Streets?

DGRossetti · 05/09/2019 17:34

I asked upthread, if Brexiteers are quite so happy to get behind Boris now ?

thecatfromjapan · 05/09/2019 17:34

No.

Once the WA is passed, we're out.

The UK will then be in the position of extending the WA for years while the 'final terms' (in reality, a series of agreements over about 10 years) are worked out.

Honestly - you have nothing to have a PV on once you pass the WA.

It sure beats NO Deal but we will be out, on terms I remember this thread being outraged by.

🤷‍♀️

JustAnotherPoster00 · 05/09/2019 17:36

Dr David Nicholl, Esq
@djnicholl
Dear Steve
@snb19692
any chance I could borrow your megaphone about 530pm ish...Id like to SHOUT a message to the House of Commons "Ministers need to stop bullying experts & listen to expert advice.Any minister who uses Parliamentary privilege to bully whistleblowers is a coward"

Singasonga · 05/09/2019 17:36

It can be edited for FB and he's got the right photo shoot

Is FB still the force for propaganda it was back in 2016?

RedToothBrush · 05/09/2019 17:36

Norman Smith @bbcnormans
Er...curious .....Boris Johnon has dropped all his lines we were briefed about Jeremy Corbyn being a "coward."

This is a more interesting tweet.

No mention repeatedly of 'Surrender' either which I thought would be the next sound bite and slogan.

I mean there's trying to look like the bullied underdog and then there's this....

... It is bizarre.

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RedToothBrush · 05/09/2019 17:37

Is FB still the force for propaganda it was back in 2016?

Yes.

Nothing has changed.

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RedToothBrush · 05/09/2019 17:38

Plus there is no limit on social media spending in a GE.

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BigChocFrenzy · 05/09/2019 17:38

He's unravelling.

I thought his speech outside No 10 t'other day sounded like he'd cancelled what he was going to say at the last moment and was ad-libbing badly.

His HoC performance yesterday was uninspiring to say the least

As London Mayor, he left the tough stuff to others and just did the PR stunts
Doesn't work that way as PM and he can't cope.

However, probably not enough time for this unravelling to save us

DGRossetti · 05/09/2019 17:39

Not that it matters. His supporters aren't watching this press conference. It can be edited for FB and he's got the right photo shoot

I wasn't thinking of his supporters who would vote for a wig on a pig if it were called Boris.

I was thinking more of the people with serious skin in the game who need him to get to the waverers, and floating voters. The ones Theresa was able to reach in the main ....

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