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Brexit

Westminstenders: Skullduggery Fatigue

959 replies

RedToothBrush · 04/09/2019 22:19

A recap as best I can

Johnson-Cummings wanted an election. Their entire strategy was based on getting one before 31st Oct to get a majority to force No Deal through and retain power for 5 years.

They protested they didn't. They poked and tried to provoke and outrage in order to get one

But the trap was spotted.

The Commons instead voted to give power to parliament to control the timetable in order to try and block no deal.

This came at a high price for 21 Tory rebels who have been kicked out of the party ungraciously and without an ounce of the respect that the HoC usually demands despite differences of opinion and its pantomime jeers.

This combined with Johnson's prorogation (and what seems to be lying to the Queen in order to get her consent if the Cherry case to block prorogation seems to be suggesting) has shocked and enraged Tory 'moderates'.

Johnson under estimated the size of the rebellion and his threat to deselect seemed to spur on rebels rather than deter them, as it made them perceive Johnson as a threat to democracy and the constitution more than if he'd taken a softer line.

He also seems to have underestimated the internal reaction amongst those who remained loyal to the party. One MP is on record saying Johnson can't take his vote for granted. At the 1922 committee MPs who stood up for the rebels were cheered whilst those who stood up for government jeered. Johnson blamed his whip for the expulsions rather than take responsibility himself which again hasn't gone down well. The chair of the One Nation Tories Damien Green has written to the PM demanding their reinstatement so all is definitely not well. Johnson has ploughed on with the selection of the rebels replacements nonetheless. The idea was to strengthen Johnson and end the internal tory civil war but his heavy handed approach doesn't seem to have settled matters yet at least. Tonight Caroline Spelman joined the rebellion but hasn't been expelled from the party, which makes last nights hard line look even worse.

The bill to block no deal passed the Commons and has gone to the lords. The Kinnock Amendment to try and return May's deal passed in an act of government skullduggery designed to sink the bill completely but thus does not seem to have paid off and may yet provide an emergency escape route from no deal. It highlights the extent Johnson will use dirty tricks.

Tonight the vote was for a GE. Under the Fixed Term Parliament Act the government needed 2/3rds of parliament to trigger one.

Labour, figuring it was a trap, havent bitten. Instead they have made preconditions to triggering one.

This scuppers Johnson's plan and its not clear where we go from here. Johnson us a lame duck but has the power of the PM's office.

He can create a vision that it's the people v parliament to help him for when we do have a GE which is now all but inevitable. This is dangerous.

But no deal is dangerous too.

The stakes are high.

Hopefully the no deal bill will pass the lords though may be hampered all weekend by filibustering.

It returns to the Commons on Monday where it needs to pass.

Then we are expecting prorogation to commence.

For Johnson who needed a GE on the 15th, Monday is his last day to trigger it. Expect more dirty tricks but he's running out of options

Come mid October the pressure for a deal will ramp up on Johnson. No deal is still the default but he will have to be seen to be doing something, not just blaming everyone else and taking no responsibility himself.

Will prorogation go ahead in these circumstances? It's now open to debate...

Johnson-Cummings strategy still could work, but it's substantially weakened and now Johnson will have to do something more radical and possibly illegal to get his own way.

And that General Election before the fall out if No Deal is still his ultimate goal as its his gateway to retain power...

... Expect even more fireworks to come.

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Thread gallery
28
GirlsBlouse17 · 05/09/2019 13:12

PMK

DGRossetti · 05/09/2019 13:12

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Westminstenders: Skullduggery Fatigue
RedToothBrush · 05/09/2019 13:12

Steve Hawkes @steve_hawkes
^So Angela Smith is expected to join the Lib Dems in the coming days with Heidi Allen the big reveal for party conference.
@LibDems^

You have to feel for the LDs. They had the Berger defection all planned to get column inches then Jo Johnson quit!

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DGRossetti · 05/09/2019 13:14

JRM may have killed parliamentary privilege (I know the courts were already getting uneasy over it previously).

SistemaAddict · 05/09/2019 13:14

when would posters feel safe to dismantle their No Deal stockpile stashes?

Personally, I'm converted to forward purchasing and having a food buffer for times of bad weather, illness or financial hardship. At the moment I'm working with 1 in the cupboard, 2 in the stash for most things but will reduce this to one in the stash if we ever get out of this mess. I've a bookcase in the under-stairs cupboard that is perfect for extra things. I have only 1.5 food cupboards in the kitchen so I use it as my pantry. Mum also converted as she does get snowed in or at least iced in as she lives on a hill and being 80 and prone to falls, then it makes sense for her to not need to venture out in bad conditions. Or if she's unwell and I can't get to her.

DGRossetti · 05/09/2019 13:16

You have to feel for the LDs. They had the Berger defection all planned to get column inches then Jo Johnson quit!

I think the bigger picture is that it's ultimately thanks to the LDs (make of that what you will) we are here, now. That FTPA stopped Boris from the classic hit'n'run election which help create the Permatory rule of the 80s and 90s.

RedToothBrush · 05/09/2019 13:16

Re Johnson resignation

Tobias Elwood @Tobias_Ellwood
Very, very sorry to read this.

The nation wants Brexit concluded. This should be achieved without threatening the complexion, vision or appeal of our great Party.

I hope PM will use an early opp. to underline his commitment to our one nation, centre right, progressive values.

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Basilpots · 05/09/2019 13:17

So Has JRM deployed on diversion tactics.

Like Fagin in Oliver right before you get your pocket picked

RedToothBrush · 05/09/2019 13:17

when would posters feel safe to dismantle their No Deal stockpile stashes

Once a deal is ratified. No sooner.

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pamperramper · 05/09/2019 13:17

So is Jo Johnson resigning as MP, not rebelling and accepting that he'll be deselected? I'm slightly disappointed. Surely country before Trump-like brother's destructive ambitions should be a no-brainer for anyone with a conscience.

pamperramper · 05/09/2019 13:19

Speaking of which, own Tory MP has gone on repeatedly about how vital it is that we get a deal, but is still supporting the government. Quite funny to receive his electioneering pamphlet covered in photos of him with Ruth Davidson, and saying how great she'll be as First Minister!

DGRossetti · 05/09/2019 13:21

Quite funny to receive his electioneering pamphlet covered in photos of him with Ruth Davidson, and saying how great she'll be as First Minister!

Events, dear boy. Events ....

RedToothBrush · 05/09/2019 13:22

Nick Cohen @NickCohen4
"Why not?" Me in @spectator on how Britain's assumption that leaders could not purge their parties, or that Prime Ministers could not ignore the law or suspend Parliament has fallen victim to that simplest of killer questions: "Why not?"

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/extremists-have-taken-over-the-two-main-parties/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Extremists have taken over the two main parties

Interesting detail I wasn't aware of:

Not to be outdone, Labour is beginning its deselection process. As Keir Starmer was struggling to prevent Britain crashing out of the EU, his supporters in Holborn and St Pancras were wearily plodding to meetings to ensure the hard left didn’t move against him. Starmer should be fine, although my contacts in the constituency say they’ve wasted half the summer organising his defence when they might have been opposing the government or just getting on with their lives.

Others will not be so lucky. Jon Lansman, the leader of Momentum, Corbyn’s inner party, wrote to a Labour MP I know to say that half of the MPs who face a deselection ballot will lose the Labour nomination – about 35 MPs by the best available guess.

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SistemaAddict · 05/09/2019 13:23

Imagine what Spitting Image would make of all this? In years to come we may see a Blackadder-esque series on this farce. I've never known anything like it.

RedToothBrush · 05/09/2019 13:23

Parly @parlyapp
@JacobReesMogg says the Royal Commission decides when to prorogue parliament

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LonelyTiredandLow · 05/09/2019 13:25

DGR which is why, if I completely cover my entire body in tinfoil and squint heavily, I can see this as a cunning way to get rid of The Bastards and forgoe a clearly Labour leaning 2017 GE all in one stroke...

DGRossetti · 05/09/2019 13:25

Meanwhile, back at the ranch ...

www.theregister.co.uk/2019/09/05/police_could_lose_access_to_79_million_criminal_alerts_after_brexit/

Brit law enforcement bodies will no longer have access to 79 million alerts about potential criminals or persons of interest if the UK leaves the EU without a deal, a Parliamentary committee has heard.

The UK currently has access to the second-generation Schengen Information System (SIS II), a Europewide IT system that facilitates cooperation for law enforcement, immigration and border control purposes used across member states.

After 31 October, the UK will no longer be able to access SIS II and will instead only be able to use the Interpol's I-24/7, the global police communications system.

However, speaking at the Home Affairs committee about the Home Office preparations for Brexit, Richard Martin, deputy assistant commissioner of the National Police Chiefs' Council, said cops will have access to just hundreds of thousands of alerts, compared with 79 million on SIS II.

Committee chair Yvette Cooper commented: "That is a massive reduction. It is not just less; it is hugely less."

Martin said: "Just to add to that, it really is down to the individual member state how much they use I-24/7. To be fair, we have not been the greatest at using it either. Looking at missing people, as I said earlier on, we have 200,000-odd people go missing a year, and I think we probably put 10 people on the Interpol system last year, because we relied on SIS II. I would not be surprised if some of our member states do the same."

Steve Rodhouse, director general of operations at the National Crime Agency, said the body has manually uploaded 125,000 Interpol alerts onto the police national computer, so they will be available to be checked at the point of operational activity.

"A system has been put in place so that new Interpol alerts will be available through the police national computer. That is important, but it is not a complete mitigation of that risk."

But Rodhouse said he could not assure the committee that alerts about very serious criminals would be available on the Interpol system.

"What I cannot assure you is that countries that have put a SIS II alert on for a serious criminal will have replicated that on I-24/7. That may well not be the case, and that is one of the challenges."

colouringinpro · 05/09/2019 13:30

Totally disgusting comment by JRM! Has he learnt nothing ie Dr Lee's last straw?

At what point can this be seen as actionable?

LonelyTiredandLow · 05/09/2019 13:33

colouring it's meant to rile.
On the plus side, at least his 6 spawn won't be continuing the Victorian epidemic resurgences apart from genetically of course

prettybird · 05/09/2019 13:34

He's covered by parliamentary privilege when making such (defamatory) statements in the HoC Angry

DGRossetti · 05/09/2019 13:36

I have a vague memory that parliamentary privilege is qualified ... otherwise an MP could spaff state secrets without comeback.

Going back, when it seemed every MP+dog was using it to break superinjunctions, there was some disquiet in judicial circles ....

LonelyTiredandLow · 05/09/2019 13:38

Sorry to those without FB, this was too good not to re-post "In a better world"

RedToothBrush · 05/09/2019 13:39

What did trump do?

Insult the 'liberal elite' - insulting middle class professionals such as doctors, teachers and lawyers is on message with target audience.

Tom Newton Dunn@tnewtondunn
Intriguing. Jacob Rees-Mogg is refusing to confirm the election vote on Monday will be under the FTPA. Does No10 think it's got the numbers to push through a one line bill, perhaps with SNP support (for which he'd need just a simple majority)?

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LonelyTiredandLow · 05/09/2019 13:40

DGR is this another ruse to get Judges against the people though? As well as the obvious distraction by JRM back to the anti-vaxxer debate and removing credibility for the impact report...

RedToothBrush · 05/09/2019 13:41

They are going to no confidence themselves aren't they?

They are. I just can see it now...

Otherwise JC et al have to vote in confidence for Johnson...

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