Westminstenders: Drain The Swamp

[RedToothBrush]

Johnson lost his first vote by 27.

The Commons take control again, and Johnson is now, with his majority gone, is seeking an election.

Whilst the feeling might be one of victory there is a definite sting in the tail.

Johnson has purged the party of 'trouble makers', meaning any replacements after an election are hard liners. And they will be in safe seats. Possibly many of which will be careerists parachuted in.

The party has split. The civil war is over.

Parliament has just lost some of its very best minds in the process. That bodes ill for us all in the long term. The polarisation has just jacked up a level. The centre has fallen even more.

There are no more moderates.

Polling suggests that Johnson won't be blamed for any of this and that's significant.

Take note of this tweet

Douglas Carswell @Douglascarswell
Boris Vs the political Parasites. Guess who wins across suburban Britain?

The optics are not about what you or I are seeing. Nor about what any of the politicial pundits are seeing.

The Democrats and the Media failed to see Trump coming... And this is what now concerns me. His optics are not bad with his core and targets.

Will Johnson be able to have his election?

If yes, I fear the polls look good for Johnson. People want 'Brexit over with' and don't want another extension. They may or may not understand the ramifications of that.

If no, then what? Johnson can do anything with his numbers. Does that mean potentially two governments and the Queen stuck in the middle? Or does he limp on, with no intention of doing anything but take us over the cliff by counting down the clock?

Or something else?

The Brexit Party and Conservatives now seem to have formally united one way or another. They have aligned with current politics alike the divided Opposition parties.

Tonight the penny might have dropped with a few Labour MPs too. They want May's deal to return. Its the only deal there is, in the absence of a Johnson plan and a Labour / Opposition plan. Too little too late...

This isn't going away as an issue either. Stoking up anger against the rebel alliance is a long term project for the fascist right.

Is tonight’s result a victory? Yes, but my fear is its potential to be a Pyrrhic Victory.

The battle today may have been won, but Johnson still looks set to win...

The WA wouldn't destroy Labour. They only really opposed it before because they were playing political silly buggers. Corbyn cba about the backstop, which is the sticking point for many ´Tories opposed to it.

On reflection I think you’re right, it would come
through damaged, but intact, albeit with a couple of dozen or so leaving in disgust. It needs Corbyn to get behind it though if it’s not going going to wither and die... if he did, and my initial thoughts are that it would be a tactically astute move, it would probably pass in the Commons, and he would go into the election having delivered where Boris couldn’t.... Yes, it would dismay many of the metropolitan remainers who voted Labour in 2017, but most of those have already jumped ship to the LDs.

It would be the thing that would finally sink the Tory party.... BJ would have failed in his mission and there’d be enough Brexit ultras in the population aghast at the “betrayal” at leaving with the WA to give fresh impetus to Farage and his BP - they will fulminate that we haven’t properly Brexited and we’re still in thrall to Brussels. The 15-20% that would support this message would be at the expense of the Tories, who would
be at a loss and without identity.

I sincerely hope this happens...it’s far from perfect but the least worst option by a distance imo (and I voted Remain).

"What happens if the EU don't give us an extension?"

If they don't - or if the UK doesn't ask for one - then the WA might be brought back, as the only way to avoid No Deal

Remain Alliance is Dominic Grieve, deselected and soon to be ex MP, and co. Labour are visibly not driving the process but are at the behest of Tory Remainers, Anna Soubry and LibDems.

Why do you think SNP are already creating distance by opting for GE as soon as Bill passed? Labour need to do this ASAP and Sir Keir and Hilary digging in against GE positioning is poisonous.

I'm struggling to keep up with the true political animals on here...in fact just about absorbing which vote is which.

However I keep thinking of that speech May did back in March. Remember the really unpopular one where she basically stirred up the people against Parliament...

She basically said I'm with you but parliament is against you.She was blaming other members of Parliament for extending the Brexit deadline.

The speech was just after she'd got the short extension to the March 29 deadline. We are in the same situation Johnson treating parliament was the enemy in a possible extension scenario.

The odd thing was that then May's remarks really backfired and everyone on both sides was outraged she had maligned parliament.

But now My Johnson is also pitting himself against parliament, even to the extent of proroguing it but the public seem more behind him than compared to May? Why the difference?

Alex Wickham@alexwickham
NEW: Theresa May told senior govt figures in the voting lobby tonight they should restore the whip to the 21 rebels, says Tory MP eyewitness

She's been sat next to Clarke so I'm not surprised by this. She was clearly supporting his right to disagree even if she didn't share that view.

re BJ resigning rather than ask for an extension

He's wanted to be PM ever since he entered politics
He's achieved his lifetime ambition

They might have to prise his cold dead fingers off the doorposts of No 10
He also believes he can get away with anything - and can the Tories really afford to get rid of yet another PM ?

remember too, he never gave a shit about Brexit;
joining the Leave campaign was only because he thought it would get him to No 10.

howabout you appear to have missed all of prettybird's posts today re SNP and their advantage in having a GE.

Boris has better spin? And he's also a man?

I don't know really, I feel like there's a subset of the electorate that almost want to have toffs like BJ and JRM leading us, like they feel it's right or something? Whereas Theresa May, middle class and female didn't really appeal?

then the WA might be brought back, as the only way to avoid No Deal
It's the only way. Theresa May is an honourable politician who tried her best. I salute her.

Oaken WA under Labour would be preamble to PV to Remain / Rejoin. Otherwise they have delivered Brexit as far as Remainers are concerned and Remain as far as Brexiters are concerned. Also strong risk that having got Remain non Labour voters just go back to voting for everyone else. Non-Remainers finally walk away head in hands.

This is why WA is also toxic to Tory Party from opposite perspective.

The SNP must be pretty torn to be honest- if they'd voted for the election it might have been one of their best chances at getting independence for Scotland.

They'd have almost definitely got more seats too.

I think it show their integrity, that they didn't go for it (although if they had, it still wouldn't have been enough to pass the vote).

Lonely not at all. I am agreeing with pretty (and have been all afternoon) that the SNP have called this right and Labour are all over the place.

lonely BoZo is a True BeLeaver remember
TM was only ever a remainer in disguise. Hence it will be better for the Tories long term if BoZoCum get WA through even if they pout whilst doing it.

"Labour are visibly not driving the process but are at the behest of Tory Remainers, Anna Soubry and LibDems."

Really ?

If those few MPs - many who will lose their seats at the next GE - can control the Labour Parliamentary party of 247 MPs
then either the party should just dissolve itself, or dump Corbyn.

Or not.
That version of a Remain Alliance sounds like a paranoid conspiracy

You may hate what Labour are doing - as a Unionist No Dealer you obviously do - but they do have a plan and they have the power in the No Deal Alliance that actually exists

Corbyn invites the little clutch of Remainers & rebels to meetings and they come to see him
Labour are in the driving seat

@DGRossetti

Would take Corbyn over no deal in a heart beat.

I have a Tory MP who certainly does not a comfortable majority and was a Labour seat three elections ago.

The fear of a Corbyn Government is nothing compared to the disaster of a No Deal Brexit.

After his disgraceful and hypocritical behaviour this week, I am delighted the odious Boris is having such a hard time. Clearly it's not such fun being PM after all.

Who knew he would make Theresa May look good in such a short space of time? And at least she combed her hair...

I have complicated feelings about Theresa May, to be honest. I think some of what she did, did lay the groundwork for Boris. And of course, she had him in her government.

But I do think she was in a really difficult position, and I have a fair amount of sympathy for her as a person. I sort of hope she is getting some enjoyment out of all of this!

Sansa SNP position is to vote for GE after the Bill is passed. Tonight's FTPA vote was just process and more grist to the obstructionist Parliament / Labour Party narrative. Boris will likely table VoNC in himself or SNP may even table it as soon as this happens (unless they have u-turned?)

It was very obvious that May kept sitting next to Ken Clarke
She could have easily chosen another seat, but she was signalling that she didn't think him a "traitor"

If she's actually stood up for against the purge, then good for her
She is very loyal to the party, but apparently also loyal to longterm colleagues and Tory MPs

I've just realised the Boris Effect.
Due to his constant lies and flip-flopping all over since becoming PM, now when he calls JC a "coward" we hear "brave" etc.

Amazing!

I have complicated feelings about Theresa May, to be honest. I think some of what she did, did lay the groundwork for Boris. And of course, she had him in her government.

Yes if she had chucked him out of the party for rebelling we would have been spared this week's shitshow. But I also hope she is getting immense pleasure watching the twat floundering and flustering.

Remain Alliance is Dominic Grieve, deselected and soon to be ex MP, and co. Labour are visibly not driving the process but are at the behest of Tory Remainers, Anna Soubry and LibDems.

If you can't see that it is an 'Anti No Deal' alliance you are misunderstanding what is happening.

It would be hysterically funny to see Tories trooping into the lobby to No Confidence themselves 😂
Another good reason for not providing the ⅔ majority tonight

If Labour can force them into that ridiculous situation, then Labour will agree with them,
but it would be a gift in a GE campaign to ALL the Opposition parties, every Tory marginal ! 😂

"the Tories voted they have No Confidence in BJ or themselves. Why should you ?" 😂

BJ would go down in history as the first ever PM to announce No Confidence in himself 😂

Thanks to eleanorscott for her blog upthread before thread closes. Worth a read.