OMG - Johnson just lost his majority whilst in full flow of his speech

[Bearbehind]

Goodness me this is madness

Now what - can he even carry on?

You are determined not to get why GFA protection must be assured first @MysteryTripAgain and I don't think anything anybody says is going to get through to you on that.

You are determined not to get why GFA protection must be assured first

FTA does not require a border between the two Countries that have agreed FTA. So the solution is easy. EU agrees to FTA and the border conundrum is gone.

Remember that GFA is not written into UK Constitution or EU law. Your Countryman/Countrywoman, WhyAmIDoingthis has confirmed that.

If Article 50 had been followed correctly, the WA and the future relationship between EU and UK would have been discussed at the same time. Nothing in Article 50 that says leaving the EU has to be a two phase process.

The GFA is the agreement that brought an end to civil war in N Ireland. Are you seriously suggesting we just throw it on the fire? The UK doesn’t have a constitution to write anything into.

Remember that GFA is not written into UK Constitution or EU law

Firstly I’m staggered that after all this ppl haven’t worked out that the UK doesn’t have a constitution. Those most bleating about democracy have least understanding of how it works.

Secondly, because it’s not law it’s ok to tear it up? I’m speechless at this.

If the UK does end up pissing over a highly successful international peace agreement, the international fallout will be significant.

@MysteryTripAgain - So why don't EU agree to FTA? Border issue does away then does it not as good pass freely between Countries that have FTA?

An FTA takes time to negotiate. In the meantime the GFA needs to be protected. If, as you say, the UK want an FTA that you claim will protect the GFA, then why won't the UK agree to the backstop? The backstop will only come into play if the GFA is threatened because a deal that protects the border cannot be agreed.

@Alsohuman & @LaurieMarlow

Nobody has said they want to see a repeat of the troubles previously seen in NI.

You just did. By suggesting the GFA doesn’t matter.

Nobody has said they want to see a repeat of the troubles previously seen in NI

If you propose breaking the GFA then you are saying that.

Remember that GFA is not written into UK Constitution or EU law. Your Countryman/Countrywoman, WhyAmIDoingthis has confirmed that.

I have done nothing of the sort. The UK is a signatory to an international peace treaty and as such has legal obligations. The UK constitution is not a written constitution so obviously nothing can be written in it.

But yes, I did agree that it is not written into EU law. But the EU has an obligation to protect members' interests.

The backstop will only come into play if the GFA is threatened because a deal that protects the border cannot be agreed

Thought it would come back to the backstop, again. So no progress made.

EU wants the backstop to protect its Single Market and Customs revenue. UK does not want the backstop as it allows EU to lock UK into the Customs Union and Single Market forever.

Essentially neither the EU nor the UK negotiators trust the other. Not too surprising considering it is effectively UK vs an alliance of France and Germany.

France still pissed off because;

French is not the World's first language
English archers wiped out the French at Agincourt despite being massively outnumbered

So very important that France eventually gets over UK after being hammered by UK for centuries

Germany still pissed off because:

UK was instrumental in the defeat of Germany in both WWI and WWII
England won the World Cup football in 1966

So very important that Germany eventually gets one over the UK as revenge.

UK

Totally unacceptable to go cap in hand to the French or the Germans as UK has beaten both France and Germany so many times in the past it can do it again.

UK ruled the waves before WWI. In WWII ruled the skies when the Spitfire pilots achieved a 2 to 1 ratio of victories over the German pilots.

As Churchill (who Johnson wants to copy) famously said

"We will fight them on the beaches if necessary"

So it is all a game.

@MysteryTripAgain - seriously? That has to one of the most pathetic posts I have seen on this subject.

Seriously @MysteryTripAgain? Are you for real?

Well @MysteryTripAgain's post wasn't at all Xenophobic was it??? Have my best face

And one of these forcgood measure

That post, while bizarre, isn’t that surprising as brexit was (for some) about 2 fingers up to the krauts/frogs.

Ironically, exactly the kind of person the original concept of the EU, envisioned by Churchill, was designed to protect us from. I had no idea people really still think like this. It’s bloody scary.

@whyamidoingthis & @Alsohuman

I am English and have worked alongside French and Germans, so my post is more accurate than you might think. However, the overall intent of the post was for amusement.

Also worked alongside Americans and you should hear what they say about Europe.

An FTA may take time to negotiate, but why does the leave process have to be two phase process. If both WA and the future relationship are agreed at the same time, which is my interpretation of Article 50, would that not eliminate any mistrust on both parties?

I can't think of a reason why UK would not want a FTA with the EU.

If FTA is estimated to take X years to conclude, then extend Article 50 by the same X years. At the end there is FTA and GFA is not touched.

the overall intent of the post was for amusement

It failed. Xenophobia is never funny.

I thought MysteryTrip's post was a joke.
Until I realised that it's not.

It says an awful lot about a person, that they can perceive the EU project as a power play, a way of exacting retribution on a winning world cup team.

As I teach my children, if you are a somewhat inadequate person, you will need to pursue power over others.
The only real power that a person(or country) has is in their own achievements.
A truly powerful person recognises that the world is not a level playing field and that sometimes, you have to lose a little, in order to gain in the long term- gain for every side.

That is the essence of the GFA. It is also the essence of the EU.

Harking back to the ratio of RAF vs Luftwaffe is the stuff of teenage fantasies.
And, while you may have worked alongside people from those countries...may I wonder if you gravitated toward people at the same level as yourself, or that you misunderstood when your leg was being pulled?

I can't think of a reason why UK would not want a FTA with the EU

Yes, but....
does the EU want a FTA with the UK?
or, is it more trouble than it's worth?
See The Spectator linked to, upthread.

That post by mystery was hideous but I suspect it actually echos the thoughts of many Leavers

FFS - 1966 World Cup

When will they realise no one else cares about that at all

And, while you may have worked alongside people from those countries...may I wonder if you gravitated toward people at the same level as yourself, or that you misunderstood when your leg was being pulled?

It is all done in good humour.

English make fun of the Scots for being drunk all the time. Scots make fun of the English for being shop keepers who have illusions of grandeur.

English make fun of the Germans about WWI and WWII. Germans make fun that whilst England won the World cup in 1966, they have achieved nothing since, a period of 50 years plus, and generally lose on penalties.

English call French the frogs. French call the English the rosbifs (roast beefs).

Australians call English POHM (Prisoners of her Majesty). English remind Australians of their ancestry (murderers, rapists deported from UK).

The list could go on.

That post by mystery was hideous but I suspect it actually echos the thoughts of many Leavers

Intent of the post for for humour and amusement, but I would agree with your comment that it might have been in the minds of some who voted leave.

Epic funny fail mystery. Sorry. You totally missed the mark there.

Intent of the post for for humour and amusement

Yeah, right 🤔