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Brexit

Westminstenders: The House Is On Fire

991 replies

RedToothBrush · 03/09/2019 13:01

Have we walked into a trap or has the trap shut on the fingers of Johnson?

To early to tell but we have entered an All or Nothing Game.

Johnson seems to have been advised his only way out is a GE - the polls look decent to him. Yet the FTPA means he can not call one without parliaments consent.

He has tried to spook Tory MPs to his will by threatening de-selection. Yet this seemed to have backfired in combination with proroguing and fired up rebels and moderates.

This might still be deliberate though to remove the road block of an internal civil war in the Tory Party. In cleansing moderates though they become the Brexit Party...

... And Spreadsheet Phil has vowed to fight to the last for his party from entryists and non members like Cummings. After first getting support of his local association.

Tonight sees a vote at around 9pm, which is touted as a pseudo no confidence vote.

If this block no deal then tomorrow we face a big day. It looks like there are numbers to do this.

Rebels are looking to seize control of parliamentary time (which might affect prorogation timetable). This is a beefed up version of the previous attempt to do this.

This is around 3pm - 7pm tomorrow.

No 10 has a spad meeting at 7pm, which presumably is about fallout from that vote - and if it goes against government will probably be about trying to force an election.

If he can.

Labour now have leverage though. They can make demands and insist they are in law before agreeing to a GE on Johnson's terms.

Which perhaps makes a GE less likely than the BBC seem to think.

There is talk of trying to force another extension to 31st Jan. I'm not entirely sure how this helps, without a legitimate goal of a deal that goes with it. All it does is push things even more polarised.

And that's my fear. The issue of Brexit isn't going away. No deal, a deal and remaining all leave significant numbers highly dissatisfied. Its hard to see a way out of this without unrest because its been pushed so hard in a polarising way.

If Johnson fails to no deal or to deal on his terms where does this push Farage sympathisers?

We shall see what happens...

... Will the House's independence survive until Nov 5th?

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Singasonga · 03/09/2019 17:51

I'm finding the idea that Philip Lee rubbed colleagues up the wrong way in a party that contains the likes of JRM really quite funny.

RedToothBrush · 03/09/2019 18:04

Nicole Skyes @nicoleskyes_
I know there's Quite A Lot going on right now, but this is worth a read - business groups representing the US, Canada, Brazil, Australia, New Zealand, Korea, Japan and Egypt warn against no deal

www.cityam.com/international-business-groups-urge-uk-to-avoid-gravely-concerning-no-deal-brexit/amp/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true
International business groups urge UK to avoid ‘gravely concerning’ no-deal Brexit

CityAM

Type Here
HOMEPAGEBUSINESSPOLITICS
POLITICS
International business groups urge UK to avoid ‘gravely concerning’ no-deal Brexit
International business groups urge UK to avoid ‘gravely concerning’ no-deal Brexit

Eight business federations from around the world including the US Chamber of Commerce have joined together to express their concern about the possibility of a no-deal Brexit, urging the UK and EU to reach an agreement over Britain’s exit from the bloc.

The groups published a joint statement saying in the event of a no-deal Brexit, firms “would be forced to make decisions about supply chains and investments in the UK without knowing what the future terms of trade will be.”

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AutumnCrow · 03/09/2019 18:04

@woman19 Yes I'm bloody glad Jess Phillips made that point about the propagation halting the passage of the Domestic Violence Bill (have I got that right? My phone was going when she got up to speak).

Cailleach1 · 03/09/2019 18:07

EU member states told the UK under BJ reneging on it's commitments in the Joint Report of 2017. Quelle surprise!

twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1168915519933734912

OublietteBravo · 03/09/2019 18:16

So Johnson (who already has no majority) is threatening to withdraw the whip from any of his MPs who vote against the government or abstain. Erm. OK then. That could be interesting...

mobile.twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1168918942418657281?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1168918942418657281&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Flive%2Fuk-politics-49557734

yolofish · 03/09/2019 18:17

Well. Blimey. Speechless PMK.

Hazardtired · 03/09/2019 18:18

Thank you red I feel clued up now.

Juicy!

Hoooo · 03/09/2019 18:21

I've got a bloody meeting tonight!
Asset management. What a snooze!

RedToothBrush · 03/09/2019 18:26

Robert Peston@peston
Here is the paradox that is doing my head in. Later tonight, when up to 20 odd Tories are stripped of the Tory whip, @BorisJohnson's minority in parliament will go from minus 2 to minus a lot. He will have no control of parliament. And yet his attempt tomorrow to hold a general election on 14 October may flop. None of this makes any sense. Chaos. Madness

David Henig @davidheniguk
Johnson could avoid this. All he'd have to do is go back on the prorogation decision. But the descent continues.

A PM with numerous Ministers who did not previously support a Brexit deal, about to sack as Tory MPs those who did, cannot credibly claim to be pursuing a new deal.

I suspect that what has particularly not gone to plan for Number 10 is Corbyn not playing the role ascribed to him, of demanding an election, and alienating the other anti no-deal MPs. So they keep doubling down on their losses in the hope they'll get him soon.

Basically the Johnson team's bluff has been called and they are desperately trying to up the ante in the hope maybe it can be covered up. There are no serious talks. It really isn't that difficult to understand

Ahhh I remember the days of the strong and stable government of Theresa May where rebelling was accepted and uturns a thing of mere pride lost rather complete sanity.

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LonelyTiredandLow · 03/09/2019 18:28

Haven't fully caught up yet but...
I have it on good authority that many high ranking medical professionals are extremely pissed of with JRM's LBC performance yesterday. There will be some major impact leaks coming over the next day or two as a result. Apparently doctors are now being fairly blunt with the aged that due to their age they are at the bottom of the pile in terms of health care, with children first. Ethically this is seen by them as the correct procedure in the face of a No Deal as it is what will have to happen. Apparently estimations are that within 6 months of a No Deal the NHS will HAVE to be sold off as it will not be able to function Sad

Not something us on the thread haven't been aware of but it will soon be in the public knowledge from a fair few angles.

RedToothBrush · 03/09/2019 18:30

Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
Sir Nicholas Soames tells me he will vote against the Govt tonight, unless the PM (who he’s going to see now) can assure him a Brexit deal will be done. Boris therefore faces the uncomfortable prospect of deselecting Winston Churchill’s grandson.

Boris has failed. After a day of thought, Nicholas Soames says: "I will be voting against the Govt tonight with a very heavy heart. I don't doubt Boris wants to get a deal, but I do not believe he has the means to will the end. His demands are unreal and I cannot condone No Deal"

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TokyoSushi · 03/09/2019 18:34

One for you @RedToothBrush

Sheffield Hallam MP Jared O'Mara 'postpones' resignation t.co/951h1aJlDu

ListeningQuietly · 03/09/2019 18:35

It is disgusting that an MP facing criminal charges who has announced his resignation is then allowed to "delay" that resignation.

In other levels of Government, resignations are immediate and irreversible.

Belindabelle · 03/09/2019 18:36

I know it’s wrong but I am loving the drama.

Bercow tearing strips off someone.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 03/09/2019 18:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

woman19 · 03/09/2019 18:38

Wow
"Does the honourable gentleman have the leave of the house:
Hundreds stand.

TokyoSushi · 03/09/2019 18:39

Brilliant!

NoWordForFluffy · 03/09/2019 18:39

With Peter Bone whinging.

woman19 · 03/09/2019 18:39

It is disgusting that an MP facing criminal charges who has announced his resignation is then allowed to "delay" that resignation
Thought you meant Johnson there. Grin
All in good time.......

Belindabelle · 03/09/2019 18:42

Peter Bone wrong again.

MrPan · 03/09/2019 18:43

Normally I dislike the florid diction of politicos.

But tonight Bercow?? Love it.

Mistigri · 03/09/2019 18:44

In other levels of Government,

He's not in government though. He's an opposition back bencher.

There is also a Tory backbencher facing criminal charges who will vote tonight (lost the whip but will no doubt vote with the govt).

LouiseCollins28 · 03/09/2019 18:46

Home now, lol let’s see how this plays out then! Suggestion on BBC news that Speaker Bercow is bending the rules. The “leave of the house” thing was dramatic, that confirms me in my view that HoC is actually trying to stop Brexit.

RedToothBrush · 03/09/2019 18:46

Whilst I despise O'Mara he isn't 'facing criminal charges' unless he's charged with something. Which he hasn't been, at least yet.

Equally whilst I think he should resign yesterday, I also feel that his constituents deserve to be represented in a vote of the magnitude of the ones taking place tonight and tomorrow.

I actually feel the same about the constituents of Dover, should Elphicke's case go against him later this week. And he has been formally charged.

There is a difference between disliking an MP and finding their standards and actions reprehensible and recognising their important role as representatives of others.

It needs to be stressed that the reason I dislike O'Mara most is for his failure to represent his constituents interests.

If he went ahead with his resignation today, he'd have done that once again.

I'm therefore begrudgingly glad that O'Mara hasnt triggered his resignation yet - provided it is temporary.

He should have resigned months ago. Now circumstances mean I fear he will fail his constituents for months longer as he hangs on for more crucial votes. But if he hangs on for these most crucial of votes which everything hangs on, then I can't be too pissed off as he's actually doing his job for a change - albeit just part of his job.

It's a difficult one. It's a situation which should never have got to this point.

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ListeningQuietly · 03/09/2019 18:50

RTB
If a County or District councillor announces that they are resigning it is effective immediately. They are not a member from that moment forward.
They can say that they will not stand at the next election, but the word "resign" once used is final ....