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Brexit

Westminstenders: It's a trap!

956 replies

RedToothBrush · 02/09/2019 02:48

The more I think about it, the more I believe that the war gaming that Cummings has undertaken involved deliberately provoking the split in the Conservatives, uniting the Opposition and triggering a GE in October - before B-Day.

If you are wise then I think Peregina (and BCF) have it spot on.

The optics are all for creating a positive circumstance for Johnson and a GE. Everything is about a GE. There is nothing about either no deal or a deal coming from government presently. Its always stank of being a trap but it not being quite clear what they were up to.

I think it's starting to become clearer.

Timing is everything and perception is essential and that's always been obvious. Johnson has to be seen as tough and hard line.

May's problems all stemmed from the party civil war and lack of majority. Realistically to survive Johnson has to solve this somehow. A GE gives him the opportunity to get rid of troublemakers and purify the party but he can only do so with Brexit Party supporters. Or a coalition with the Brexit Party as a last resort.

His strategy all along has been about demonising and laying the blame. And it's quite clear there is deliberate incitement going on.

Johnson HAS to be challenged for it to work though. Either by Labour going for a GE or by a VoNC sooner rather than later so a GE can fall mid Oct.

If this doesn't happen Johnson runs into problems and has to seriously consider abusing to powers of the executive to do anything. I suspect he'd try this and we'd have a constitutional crisis but this is plan B rather than plan A.

Johnson wants to be in control of the timetable without being seen to do it himself.

That points to an earlier election he has denied he wants. And rumours are now circling for 14th October election that Cummings wants to call next week - the minor detail here being the mechanics a of the FTPA. Johnson can't just call a GE without repealing the act (needs a majority to do so which he doesn't have), complying with the act (2/3rds of the House vote for it which requires Labour support) or a VoNC and he then calls a GE.

A 1st Nov GE requires him to drive us over the cliff, which is currently technically unlawful and provokes no deal the government isn't prepared for. Its extremely high risk as a strategy. It might well still be in play, but its a last resort I suspect.

A VoNC and the temptation to form an alternative government is high risk strategy as despite saying Johnson would refuse to resign, he could well just be saying this to provoke the strategy.

Remember: Propaganda is always about playing to emotional behaviour to illicit the 'right' behaviour.

There is this mentally amongst some remain quarters that only leavers are 'stupid enough' to fall for this. And there is this idea that everything that's going on now is to whip up leave feeling.

Is that true? Who is taking to the streets?

I do suspect that enough hard-line Remainers will be so angry that they act recklessly with emotions rather than rational and potentially fall for it. That's the trick. Get people emotional and you can control their behaviour. That's what Cummings did for the referendum. Except he manipulated Leave voters. He's trying to do the reverse with Remain voters now. So the question is to what ends and it does seem to come back to what Peregina says above. And whether Remainers can see it and respond to it, or become so caught up with the outrage.

Of course if the public are wound up enough and their representatives on the remain side don't play ball, then they become disillusioned and this also has an effect on voter moral (less likely to turnout). So it could be win win strategy anyway, unless this danger isn't spotted and the opposition fail to call it out and defuse it. All their messages so far are not doing so. Win Win to Cummings.

I think there are definitely two plans in action here. A preferred one and a less preferred one. Strikingly for all this game theory talk, it does look like it's about Johnson and Cummings retaining control of the narrative and the timings for a GE. Brexit itself is something of an irrelevance to this. It's not what they are trying to achieve though. Johnsons priority is to stay in power, not manage Brexit responsibly though and that's the key to understanding it all, whereas Dealers and Remainers priority is simply about preventing no deal. Johnson ultimately doesn't care about this, if he can stay PM.

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thecatfromjapan · 03/09/2019 08:53

Cherin Good luck, my dear. 💐💐

RedToothBrush · 03/09/2019 08:53

Paul Brand@paulbranditv
BREAKING: Nigel Farage confirms Brexit Party won’t stand against Conservative candidates in an election if Boris Johnson promises to leave the EU without a deal. “Of course we’ll put country before party.” Massively helps the Tory vote, while the opposition is divided @BBCr4today

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LonelyTiredandLow · 03/09/2019 08:55

Thanks prettybird. And just to confirm, they couldn't have done that without support of HoC? Just feels as though something is hiding in plain sight here.

My friend said that the BBC actually challenged BoZo's speech last night; apparently she was so shocked as it was the first time she heard anyone not toe the Tory line - they didn't have Keunssberg on apparently and the presenter kept saying "if you believe what Boris says anymore" or similar? I didn't see it myself so going on what I've been told. Has there been a BBC shake up? Can we expect some real reporting and actual facts? Shock

RedToothBrush · 03/09/2019 08:55

Steven Swinford@steven_swinford
Will Boris Johnson actually be able to call an election?

Looking less likely this morning:

* Senior Labour figures say legislation to block no deal must be ‘locked down’ first

* Hammond says Corbyn privately backed position

* Tory rebels indicate they won’t back one

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thecatfromjapan · 03/09/2019 08:56

Rory Stewart is very popular with Conservative members in these parts (London). I think quite a few see him as a possible Leader once the madness is over.
Threatening to deselect him has to be playing badly with a lot of Conservatives beyond his constituency. Shock

RedToothBrush · 03/09/2019 09:02

James Ball @jamesrbuk
Another convention bites the dust: if there’s an early election, Politico’s Playbook says the government won’t impose purdah, which usually raises the bar on public bodies engaging in political actions during elections.

They’re really ripping up everything they touch right now.

So Johnson could use the power of state to aid him during an election campaign

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PerkingFaintly · 03/09/2019 09:04

OYBBK thank you for going this afternoon.

And everyone else who's been peacefully out on the streets the last few days.

LonelyTiredandLow · 03/09/2019 09:04

Could they agree to have the WA if that is the only option left instead of No Deal as the fall back? We all know bugger all else has been done to get a deal with EU other than pouting so I see that as a good 'lockdown'. However not sure why BoZo Cum would go for it as they are now tied to the No Deal rhetoric, esp if they are colluding with BxP.

PerkingFaintly · 03/09/2019 09:04

Feckin' 'ell.

I'm going to buy marshmallows to toast over the burning ruins of my country's political system. May as well get something useful out of all this.

Might stick a few tinfoiled spuds in the embers afterwards, too.

thecatfromjapan · 03/09/2019 09:05

woman I agree with you re. Goddard.

And thank you for highlighting that.

It's worth highlighting the fact that, as Brexit rumbles on, these Far Right thugs are enabled.

It's so, so horrible.

Kitten I'm not going to be there tonight - am going tomorrow. If you go tomorrow, please do say.
And - yay! - for going.
I really think a visible reminder that this does not carry the consent of the people is so, so important.

You are a 🌟

DGRossetti · 03/09/2019 09:06

Farage now going full no-deal may actually help Boris ? It allows him to appear to be at the helm of a "sane" Tory party trying to stop no-deal, and gives him somewhere to point to with the words "off you fuck then" to the ERG if they don't like it ?

The only plus thing about having Boris as PM, is the total lack of ideology except for Project Boris.

Or have I missed something ?

Violetparis · 03/09/2019 09:06

Do you think Labour have trapped BJ into thinking they would vote for an election ? Andrew Marr has said Kier Starmer told him on Sunday they wouldn't support an election bid until they had all of the legislation against no deal nailed down.

Songsofexperience · 03/09/2019 09:07

@cherin 💐
Fingers and toes crossed for you!

prettybird · 03/09/2019 09:07

So the unusual date of 14 October is now explained: this is the specific date that Downing Street has briefed that it will (Hmm) be.

thecatfromjapan · 03/09/2019 09:07

RTB 'So Johnson could use the power of state to aid him during an election campaign'

I've just re-posted that because it is SO shocking.

There aren't enough ShockShockShockShockShock.

LonelyTiredandLow · 03/09/2019 09:10

DGR I think he will stick to no deal if BxP isn't going to split their vote

Songsofexperience · 03/09/2019 09:10

So Johnson could use the power of state to aid him during an election campaign

What do they mean by 'power of state'?

DGRossetti · 03/09/2019 09:11

Do you think Labour have trapped BJ into thinking they would vote for an election ?

One good thing (is it accidental) about the slight fuzz of what's going on with Labour, is that it keeps the Tories guessing as much as us...

dontcallmelen · 03/09/2019 09:11

Cherin hope all goes well today💐

DGRossetti · 03/09/2019 09:12

So Johnson could use the power of state to aid him during an election campaign What do they mean by 'power of state'?

Presumably the taxpayer will fund a massive Tory party campaign.

Songsofexperience · 03/09/2019 09:12

Fwiw I've never believed for one second BJ was looking for a deal. Not one second. He was hired for one job only: no deal in October. That is it.

Violetparis · 03/09/2019 09:12

All of this utter disgrace is because the Tories were and still are desperate not to lose seats to Nigel Farage. Sad

LonelyTiredandLow · 03/09/2019 09:13

It's a shame it isn't on a football day or something. Is there any sporting event on that day which could side-track a few Leavers?

If I were rich enough a giant party or footy extravaganza with free tickets/fireworks/bands would be something I'd consider funding the day we discover the GE day.

Although I am still convinced it will be Nov 1st.

RedToothBrush · 03/09/2019 09:13

Alex Wickham@alexwickham
Rebels bullish but worth noting Greg Clark, Ken Clarke, Stephen Hammond, Nicholas Soames, Phillip Lee and Anne Milton have not yet confirmed they'll vote against the government

Clarke isn't on twitter. Can not see him backing Johnson with his voting record on this so far. Plus his age means he hasn't got much of a career left!

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DGRossetti · 03/09/2019 09:14

DGR I think he will stick to no deal if BxP isn't going to split their vote

But an election with both Tories and BXP pushing for no deal seems a little odd, seeing as the no-deal element of the electorate is touted as being nowhere near the number of people that don't want no deal ?

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