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Brexit

Westminstenders: It's a trap!

956 replies

RedToothBrush · 02/09/2019 02:48

The more I think about it, the more I believe that the war gaming that Cummings has undertaken involved deliberately provoking the split in the Conservatives, uniting the Opposition and triggering a GE in October - before B-Day.

If you are wise then I think Peregina (and BCF) have it spot on.

The optics are all for creating a positive circumstance for Johnson and a GE. Everything is about a GE. There is nothing about either no deal or a deal coming from government presently. Its always stank of being a trap but it not being quite clear what they were up to.

I think it's starting to become clearer.

Timing is everything and perception is essential and that's always been obvious. Johnson has to be seen as tough and hard line.

May's problems all stemmed from the party civil war and lack of majority. Realistically to survive Johnson has to solve this somehow. A GE gives him the opportunity to get rid of troublemakers and purify the party but he can only do so with Brexit Party supporters. Or a coalition with the Brexit Party as a last resort.

His strategy all along has been about demonising and laying the blame. And it's quite clear there is deliberate incitement going on.

Johnson HAS to be challenged for it to work though. Either by Labour going for a GE or by a VoNC sooner rather than later so a GE can fall mid Oct.

If this doesn't happen Johnson runs into problems and has to seriously consider abusing to powers of the executive to do anything. I suspect he'd try this and we'd have a constitutional crisis but this is plan B rather than plan A.

Johnson wants to be in control of the timetable without being seen to do it himself.

That points to an earlier election he has denied he wants. And rumours are now circling for 14th October election that Cummings wants to call next week - the minor detail here being the mechanics a of the FTPA. Johnson can't just call a GE without repealing the act (needs a majority to do so which he doesn't have), complying with the act (2/3rds of the House vote for it which requires Labour support) or a VoNC and he then calls a GE.

A 1st Nov GE requires him to drive us over the cliff, which is currently technically unlawful and provokes no deal the government isn't prepared for. Its extremely high risk as a strategy. It might well still be in play, but its a last resort I suspect.

A VoNC and the temptation to form an alternative government is high risk strategy as despite saying Johnson would refuse to resign, he could well just be saying this to provoke the strategy.

Remember: Propaganda is always about playing to emotional behaviour to illicit the 'right' behaviour.

There is this mentally amongst some remain quarters that only leavers are 'stupid enough' to fall for this. And there is this idea that everything that's going on now is to whip up leave feeling.

Is that true? Who is taking to the streets?

I do suspect that enough hard-line Remainers will be so angry that they act recklessly with emotions rather than rational and potentially fall for it. That's the trick. Get people emotional and you can control their behaviour. That's what Cummings did for the referendum. Except he manipulated Leave voters. He's trying to do the reverse with Remain voters now. So the question is to what ends and it does seem to come back to what Peregina says above. And whether Remainers can see it and respond to it, or become so caught up with the outrage.

Of course if the public are wound up enough and their representatives on the remain side don't play ball, then they become disillusioned and this also has an effect on voter moral (less likely to turnout). So it could be win win strategy anyway, unless this danger isn't spotted and the opposition fail to call it out and defuse it. All their messages so far are not doing so. Win Win to Cummings.

I think there are definitely two plans in action here. A preferred one and a less preferred one. Strikingly for all this game theory talk, it does look like it's about Johnson and Cummings retaining control of the narrative and the timings for a GE. Brexit itself is something of an irrelevance to this. It's not what they are trying to achieve though. Johnsons priority is to stay in power, not manage Brexit responsibly though and that's the key to understanding it all, whereas Dealers and Remainers priority is simply about preventing no deal. Johnson ultimately doesn't care about this, if he can stay PM.

OP posts:
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Hazardtired · 02/09/2019 16:58

You're more judy king from OITNB then judgejudy.

I am red.

DGRossetti · 02/09/2019 17:00

have done a 10,000 MRP poll of Great Britain. It says a snap election would produce...another hung parliament!

Which is something that's been mooted since 2017.

Something is "broken" in UK politics. Whatever it is, it's lead to 2 hung parliaments in less than 8 years, so simply by extrapolation, a 3rd isn't impossible.

I wonder if the movement of student voters into first-year institutions could have any bearing in some constituencies ? Hopefully someone, somewhere has already set their analysis suite running, and will be able to advice such voters where their vote may be best used.

JudgeJudyismyinspiration · 02/09/2019 17:00

cho You seem to have missed the brexit party in your configuration, last time I checked they were polling at 12%

yougov.co.uk/topics/political-trackers/all

Conservatives - 32%
Labour - 22%
Lib Dems - 20%
Brexit party - 12%

prettybird · 02/09/2019 17:00

No, I am Red Grin

We're all sock puppets Wink

Emilyontmoor · 02/09/2019 17:00

Judge Judy is of course a right winger who thinks that Trump is the only US politician not talking “hogwash”. On that basis all of us left of Trump are Red 😂😂

JudgeJudyismyinspiration · 02/09/2019 17:01

It won't be a hung parliament, Cons and Brexit party will join/make a pact and that will give Cons overall majority.

chomalungma · 02/09/2019 17:01

ou seem to have missed the brexit party in your configuration, last time I checked they were polling at 12

You seem to not be capable of reading.
Those were SEAT predictions - in a poll by the Conservative party.

HTH

Sostenueto · 02/09/2019 17:02

You look at Boris the animals partner and think someone would advise her properly so I will......' you should have gone to specsavers!'Grin

DGRossetti · 02/09/2019 17:02

I wonder if the Heathrow issue is still a problem for "the Boris" ?

chomalungma · 02/09/2019 17:02

It won't be a hung parliament, Cons and Brexit party will join/make a pact and that will give Cons overall majority

And what do you think other parties will do?

PostNotInHaste · 02/09/2019 17:03

I wasn’t talking about you naturally JudgeJudy.

I meant the ones who get dispatched here each time there is a major development to try and exploit the fact that posts on MN rank quickly on Google so a load get dispatched to try and get a keyword or phrase ranking. It’s been really interesting to watch and am sure it will be the subject of many student essays in years to come,

JudgeJudyismyinspiration · 02/09/2019 17:03

And you wonder why there are no leavers on here?? You are a vile bunch of very bitter broken people.

Emilyontmoor · 02/09/2019 17:04

@JudgeJudyismyinspiration - is the best laugh I have had all day. No citations for any statements just bullshit and bollocks.

Sadly I think we are all going to have to get used to a lot more of the same from the Cummings random bullshit and bollocks generator. As Red says this is going to be all about emoting,, forget rationality and intellect...

Apileofballyhoo · 02/09/2019 17:05

Most alarming of all, Ireland have done absolutely nothing to prepare for no deal, and many are furious. It was pretty obvious the way it was going, but Leo thought the EU would win the day and he could sit back smugly. Well now there is a panic to catch up, but we have weeks not months, nor years, and we need to be ready.

Why does Judge Judy write as if they are both in Ireland and the UK? Confused

chomalungma · 02/09/2019 17:05

And you wonder why there are no leavers on here

Nothing vile about mentioning facts, is there?
You'll admit that when you pulled me up on that poll, you did in fact misread it...

Sostenueto · 02/09/2019 17:05

So if Boris has alternative to backstop publish it before Parliament resumes! Liar liar pants on fire!

Apileofballyhoo · 02/09/2019 17:05

Oh - forgot to say - I'm Red and so is my wife.

JudgeJudyismyinspiration · 02/09/2019 17:06

post That happens on both sides. I have seen many very random very pro EU one off posts too. The bottom line is that most of the UK are somewhere in the middle. We don't like the EU Commission, but we like the Europe very much. We don't like the idea of handing away all of our powers, but we do like the trading side of things. We have had a very tricky relationship from the start, and it has only got worse.

I don't think there are many hard lefts or hard rights, but it is whipped up no end by anyone that will listen. The fact is, most people on either side would have been happy enough with a half decent deal and good relations, but it became painfully obvious that is just not going to happen.

Views become entrenched, people stop listening to each other, and it becomes a bloodbath in parliament, still yet to fully play out.

AnxietyDream · 02/09/2019 17:08

You are a vile bunch of very bitter broken people.

U ok Hun?

TheElementsSong · 02/09/2019 17:09

You are a vile bunch of very bitter broken people.

Diddums Grin

Oh, and I'm Red.

Sostenueto · 02/09/2019 17:10

*And you wonder why there are no leavers on here?? You are a vile bunch of very bitter broken people..........

I'm none of those things judgejudy
There you go again being judgmental without any proof!

Apileofballyhoo · 02/09/2019 17:10

On the cabinet "leaks":

^Exc 4 - leak cabinet 5pm briefing cont

  • (On Backstop) "We have preliminary worked-up legal texts plus assessments of the legal and process changes needed to replace checks otherwise required at Irish border, and will feed all these in at the right moment"^

Because they have to be kept secret in case they don't actually exist.

JudgeJudyismyinspiration · 02/09/2019 17:11

Sos There has been an alternative to the back stop in play for the last four months that I know of, why don't you know this basic stuff? EU are aware of it, in principle they are not against the idea (as they have already published)

www.politico.eu/article/experts-propose-alternative-to-brexit-backstop-no-deal-uk-eu-ireland/

Your posts are very out of date and out of touch.

Relentless soundbites of misinformation.

JudgeJudyismyinspiration · 02/09/2019 17:12

anxiety I am fine, but I am not sure about you love.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 02/09/2019 17:14

I just wish I was red, does that count? Wink