Westminstenders: Game On?

[RedToothBrush]

Johnson has had prorogation approved by the Queen.

There has been widespread outrage and horror both in the UK and in Europe. Johnson has ripped up the principle of Liberal democracy even if constitutionally what he has done is legal. In shredding convention and the 'gentlemans agreement' of understanding we teeter on the edge of democratic collapse.

Talk is tha Dominic Cummings is persuing a game theory principle of deliberately putting us on collision course with the EU. The idea being that they will blink first because the alternative of what will happen is just too awful for them to allow. The idea is to force others to make the moves whilst Johnson appears principled and strong, even without a proper strategy and plan for a deal.

And there is the rub. Despite all the Talk of no deal, at some point a deal MUST be made, regardless of whether its before or after 31st October. There is no sense of what that could be and how it could be done. And then there's the prospect of a US deal which suffers from the same lack of tangibility.

All there is, is how things look for a General Election. Nothing else.

Johnson is pitching for an election with no sense of what's needed for Brexit - including the legislation needed for no deal. Not to forget that Cummings, strategist that he is, apparently isn't here for the long haul, only being contracted until 31st October, when he goes for surgery he postponed to take on this job.

So what's the plan for Johnson Post Cummings? Or is he going to do even more 'winging it'.

Meanwhile there's an awful lot of moderate Tory MPs getting very nervous and already failing to stick to the Cummings script.

Johnson, until there is an election is going to firmly blow hot and cool, trying to play to the hopes and fears of leavers and remainers to keep them hanging on to hope and the notion that x or y will happen, when x and y can't possibly both happen because they are completely opposing strategies. Hope leads us blindly to stumble like fools into his trap and to win his reelection.

Next week looks very bumpy indeed. Chances are this thread won't make it past Saturday...

Just read a brief article by Bercow's biographer - his take is that if prorogation is not stopped Bercow would relish opening an alternative chamber.

He knows he's likely to have only a few weeks left as in the event of a GE the Tories are likely to run another candidate against him. So personality wise he will be keen to do whatever he can and leave a 'lasting legacy' - all of which would fit very well with opening an alternative chamber during prorogation.

This would genuinely cause a constitutional crisis then (as would BJ not stepping aside after a VoNC).

So what is the plan with SO24 - that allows a call for an emergency debate - and then what?

SO24, like a vote for a new PM, relies on BJ & the Brexiters following the rules

There is astonishment & horror in Germany when I explain it is possible BJ may ignore votes against him or No Deal:
they compare it to their own country's first steps towards fascism

They have a written constitution with clear rules (.... mostly defined by the US & UK) about what is required and what is forbidden
That means the courts have the power to stop the govt and even Parliament carrying out certain actions.

Of course no judge can stop a dictatorship once it has actually happened,
but stopping it in the earliest stages is much more feasible.

Bercow playing a starring rule in an alternative Parliament would put him in the history books,
but if we get to that stage it'll just be a sideshow to the remorseless march into No Deal

Bercow playing a starring rule in an alternative Parliament would put him in the history books

Doesnt parliament have to have the assent of the monarch and if she doesnt doesnt it just mean a few people are meeting in a room but with no power?

++BREAKING++

Dominic Cummings has notified Conservative MPs that if they vote for the extension legislation next week, they will be "automatically deselected" before the next election via Conservative Central Office "even if their local organisations stand by them".

Incredible.

WTAF is going on?!

If I was one of those at risk MPs, Tokyo’s update woukd be enough to tip me into the “fuck you” camp & come out swinging.

Surely Cummings threat/bluff depends on when GE is called? If he's off from 1 Nov so normal (ha ha) business can resume after that.

I wonder if he actually will go on 1st November? I know he's supposed to, but in the highly likely event that this is not all done and dusted by then, might he just go off for whatever the operation is (or postpone it) and then come back because the lure of 'the power' is just too great?

I know nothing about Mike Galsworthy, but in that video posted near the top of the thread, he states that Cummings really doesn't like the Tories and is just using them.

If Galsworthy's accurate, looks like Cummings is using the Tory party to incubate his own populist nationalist movement until it's ready to burst out of the Tories' chest.

His announcement that he will deselect Tory MPs fits nicely with that.

Hopefully one good thing will come from last nights trouble in Govan.

All sectarian marches will be banned going forward.

This March should never have taken place when it did.

A Friday night and just before an old firm game.

I am at this talk of an alternative parliament. Surely that's not on?

As JustAnotherPoster00 put it, surely it just means a few people are meeting in a room but with no power? That they can continue to discuss, but will have to wait until parliament is back in session in order to action things? I have no idea really – I'd be glad to hear from someone who understands this stuff!

(Sorry if you've already explained and I've missed it.)

WTAF about Cummings

Very polite but determined St Albans meeting right now:

numberfaker
Could you link again to those building regs?
Thank you x

Dh and I doing a last few jobs round the house and buying more for the stockpile.

Wtf is happening!!!????

Octothorpe looking lovely! This will be useful come election time in St Albans too.....
Would be fantastic if picture could be posted on this thread too....
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3677475-Protests-against-the-Prorogation-of-Parliament

Saw the events in Govan. I wonder who organised it, and why it was allowed. Some will be lending a hand who don't have Scotland's best interests at heart. I am not surprised, but deeply saddened. Living in sectarian places and times reminds me so much of how 'brexit' has affected the whole country now.

woman will do!

Ah.
I've gone onto the desktop site and I can open the link now, thank you.

This is the statement that Glasgow City Council tweeted last night.

I particularly like "The city needs and wants fewer marches. We are prepared to consider any action that will protect communities from morons intent on bringing mayhem to the streets of our city."

Morons is indeed what they are

Very sad prettybird

This is the lady who I thought Daniel Hannan's conscience might have been pricked by.

Where do I go?' EU citizens face legal limbo after decades in Britain

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-immigration-insight/where-do-i-go-eu-citizens-face-legal-limbo-after-decades-in-britain-idUKKCN1VK0CV

Aged 57. Here since aged 2. Italian dad came to help rebuild the country working in a factory. Very like Windrush.

The threat from Cummings is exactly what Richard Harrington was pre-empting imo. I do hope it spurs on the moderates in the Tory party. I don't remember deselection being used as a threat before - is it as unusual as it sounds?

Johnson; Hindenburg or von Papen?

sent to me from Japan.

British politics summed up in a Gif.

m.imgur.com/gallery/bt65LTZ

"over-promoted rubber bath toy" Copyright Hugh Grant.

Johnson; over-promoted rubber bath toy.

That British Italian lady's case reminded me of this:

www.amazon.co.uk/Invisible-Women-Exposing-World-Designed/dp/1784741728/ref=sr_1_1?s=gateway&crid=1V6INXH3FI0PI&keywords=invisible+women&sprefix=invisible+%2Caps%2C171&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1567249978&sr=8-1

...Caroline Criado Perez' book about "Invisible Women: Exposing Data Bias in a World Designed for Men"

The whole Settled Status procedure, with the information required to make it "easy" , is a prime example - and what's worse, it is a woman in charge, trying to make it even worse.

I know nothing about Mike Galsworthy, but in that video posted near the top of the thread, he states that Cummings really doesn't like the Tories and is just using them

What the hell is Cummings game? Rip the whole fabric of the country down to rebuild society? What kind of “society” does Cummings want ^we need a scared emoticon^