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Brexit

Westminstenders: Prorogation

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 28/08/2019 11:10

Its come to this.

Boris Johnson is to ask the Queen for permission to suspend parliament.

There are several legal challenges in the system to prevent this from happening.

It is unlikely to be able to stopped and the Queen is unlikely to intervene either. To do so would expose the Monarchy directly to a political threat which could lead to the downfall of the Crown if the cards lined up. Johnson has deliberate set up the situations where if she does, he is on the 'side of the people' whilst she is on the 'side of the establishment'. If she does nothing, she might be exposed still but none action, can be spun as political neutrality.

As David Allen Green points out:
^David Allen Green @davidallengreen
This is now the realm of pure politics

No court is likely to intervene - and it is not obvious what remedy a court could even grant so as to satisfactorily resolve the matter

"Not justiciable" as judges sometimes say

As we have seen so far, the opposition have been completely outclassed when it comes to 'pure politics' partly because of tribalism, partly because they lacked the capacity to understand and imagine how bad this could get - they never thought Johnson would go this far (massive tactical mistake) and partly because they so far do not understand whats driving this and have not produced and alternative narrative and explaination to counter those social and political fractures. Indeed everything they are doing is only serving to reinforce and widen those rifts and their complete lack of self awareness has been to blame. Johnson not only sees these fractures, he understands them, knows how to exploit them and most importantly is willing to do anything to retain power.

Authoritarians are always driven by this lust for power and are won't stop for anything. Thats why they are so dangerous and why checks and balances were put into the system. The trouble is the opposition didn't read the signs and are flapping in the wind now its reached the point where they suddenly realise its too far gone to be able to do much. The runaway train is firmly off the rails.

This all comes a day after the opposition apparently have agree a strategy to oppose No Deal. Which seems to include a VoNC. Remember this will always require Tory Rebels as even working together the Opposition haven't got the numbers - especially considering there are a few Labour Brexiteers.

This is being framed as a coalition of anti-democrats (which is something of a contradiction on several levels) by the government and the Brexit Party.

They have signed a pledge to set up an alternative parliament if government does prorogue parliament. This is full on civil war era stuff aka as a full blown constitutional crisis. Its actively into dangerous terrority. And as such, we very much into talking about the very real possibility of civil unrest. This is no longer something that can be considered hyperbole.

The timetable of this would see parliament prorogued just a few days into September (next week), closed to prepare for a new Queen's Speech and returning around the 17th October remembering the crucial final EU sumit on the 17th October. A VoNC doesn't necessarily mean the government will go though. There is no legal requirement to force the government to stand down. We may yet end up with a situation of two governments claiming legitmacy at the same time in late October. Prime Ministers Corbyn and Johnson.

A GE might eventually be the result of such a constitutional crisis but we would be way past 31st October before that happens.

Would we end up with an extension in such circumstances? Well the Prime Minister has to ask for one formally from the EU and the EU have to agree to one.

The problem being, who do the EU recognise as our PM?

We also have things coming into legal effect on the 1st November which would otherwise need revoking by parliament.

Which Parliament?

Things are going to get very very messy indeed.

OP posts:
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smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 28/08/2019 21:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

colouringinpro · 28/08/2019 21:12

Red ❤ and to everyone on these threads. I've signed. I'm trying not to drink. My family needs medications to stay sane and thereby alive and/or out of prison.

Fucking terrified now.

colouringinpro · 28/08/2019 21:14

I'm not far from m25. How could that be organised?

mrspinksnow · 28/08/2019 21:16

Talking of Scottish Independence, I don't see how it could happen if the government won't grant another referendum?

woman19 · 28/08/2019 21:17

the government won't grant another referendum
Correct.

wheresmymojo · 28/08/2019 21:18

General strike is trending on Twitter...

woodpigeons · 28/08/2019 21:18

I’m in East Midlands near the M1.
I can’t walk much but I’m up for lying down on the motorway. Will bring my pillow.

lonelyplanetmum · 28/08/2019 21:20

Petition at 848k

BigChocFrenzy · 28/08/2019 21:20

Peaceful direct actions, hmm ...

Hacking
Drones around major airports

lonelyplanetmum · 28/08/2019 21:20

How long before the petitions system is prorogued?

Outsomnia · 28/08/2019 21:21

I have never put my head above the parapet to be a protester before now.

But I sure would stop traffic on our motorways by lying down now. With the police being informed of course, do not want anyone to be injured or anything like that. The impact would really be immense wouldn't it?

I don't know where it could be co ordinated. Sorry. It is just something that I thought might work to hit everyone where it hurts without any violence whatsoever.

And I do realise it might affect those like ourselves. But such is life. It is a fight worth fighting for now I think.

Welcome any suggestions.

Piggywaspushed · 28/08/2019 21:23

St Albans has so many signatures (in the Home Counties there!) because they hate Anne Main. She said awful things about her own constituents. It will go Lib Dem at an election.

PestyMachtubernahme · 28/08/2019 21:25

So what is likely to be in the Queen's speech?

Lots of carrots

More powers and guns for the police (there have been a couple of nasty deaths recently).
Lots of stuff about protection of the people and the state.

A magic money tree for the NHS

Coppersulphate · 28/08/2019 21:27

I find it astonishing that the MPs who refused to implement the democratic vote of the people are now crying about lack of democracy.

SequinnedSlippers · 28/08/2019 21:27

But what will replace it?

Authoritarian rule with a focus on
1.rising economic standards for a fairly significant chunk of the population (China)

  1. waving ever higher prizes in front of a successful few to build the perception that if you just work hard enough/are focussed enough you can get to the land of milk and honey and create the illusion of opportunity for all (American Dream)
  2. Fostering a louder, cruder, stronger sense of national identity (MAGA/Murica)
  3. Longer incumbencies, with “stronger leaders” who get increasingly competent at state craft both at home and abroad and so are/are perceived to be more skilful/experienced/better at getting the best for the country (Russia, China)
  4. There may be some kind of affirmatory electoral activity to legitimise the government and to keep populist sentiments onside, but it will be increasingly perfunctory. Increase in plebiscitary activity initially to keep popular support. (We pretty much wrote the book on that one already, although De Gaulle might have added a footnote or two).
AuldAlliance · 28/08/2019 21:32

I am concerned about the Cherry case before the Court of Session.
If the Scottish judges rule that it is illegal for Pmt to be suspended, then the "Traitors of the People" headlines will seem mild in comparison.
If they rule that it's legal, they'll give BlowJob a free rein, incurring the wrath of remainers. And if they do, feck knows what he's capable of. And there's Trump egging him with his "great one" shite.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 28/08/2019 21:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Piggywaspushed · 28/08/2019 21:34

Anne Main told her constituents copper that they have to support her and that they had no right to contact her about Brexit. She is a Brexiteer representing a constituency that has one of the highest pro Remain votes. She'll lose her seat. Guess that's democracy.

www.hertsad.co.uk/news/st-albans-mp-anne-main-sparks-controversy-with-i-will-not-be-cowed-statement-1-5973265

Lonelycrab · 28/08/2019 21:34

I find it astonishing that the MPs who refused to implement the democratic vote of the people are now crying about lack of democracy

You know nothing about democracy and you’ve simply adopted the phrase like you have some sort of authority on it. You posts are misconstrued and fundamentally filled with bullshit imo.

No offence, likeSmile

NoWordForFluffy · 28/08/2019 21:36

@Lonelycrab, you said that way more diplomatically than I would've done. I concur!

woman19 · 28/08/2019 21:40

It will go Lib Dem at an election
Absolutely splendid pro EU group there. Very effective campaigner I met doing the stall on Saturdays is now a successful Lib Dem councillor.

We were supposed to be out 5 months ago, btw.

The lovely FOM and food on the shelves summer was thanks to those pesky disorganised unpersuasive remainers.

National map of at least 26 actions across 3 british countries coming up over next few days.

www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=126xVlyiCy5vkZhJFDVNJyMQFFuCuliV5&hl=en_US&ll=53.20134488709827%2C-2.4649319000000105&z=6

Central London Protests still going at 21.36pm Smile
.

Outsomnia · 28/08/2019 21:40

Sad thing is, we have no voice to make the maximum objection to this abomination now.

Need to figure out how to do that peacefully and safely with maximum disruption right now. I have posited a possibility already, but sadly I don't think many would do it really..

So we are sunk. As they knew it. And here we are.

PerkingFaintly · 28/08/2019 21:41

Coppersulphate Wed 28-Aug-19 21:27:24
I find it astonishing that the MPs who refused to implement the democratic vote of the people are now crying about lack of democracy.

I don't find it at all astonishing that people who cried about the supposed lack of democracy in the EU, and who cried about the rule of law in the UK and Parliament being allowed to vote on the EU, are now NOT crying when a man appointed by a few 100,000 members of the Tory party shuts down Parliament to get his own way.

(And it's not the way voted for by the majority in the Referendum, as there was no box to tick for the different versions of Brexit.)

Nope, I'm not astonished by that one little bit.

Truly.

It's what I've always expected of certain people.

Lonelycrab · 28/08/2019 21:41

Asking if people want to eat pizza or roast dinner? They vote for roast dinner.

Copper sulphate you are serving up a bucket of warm sick.

Do you understand the difference? Because I think more and more people will see that there’s a difference.

Can you copy/paste a response?🤔

PerkingFaintly · 28/08/2019 21:43

Or what Lonelycrab said better and more succinctly.Grin