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Brexit

Westminstenders: Prorogation

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 28/08/2019 11:10

Its come to this.

Boris Johnson is to ask the Queen for permission to suspend parliament.

There are several legal challenges in the system to prevent this from happening.

It is unlikely to be able to stopped and the Queen is unlikely to intervene either. To do so would expose the Monarchy directly to a political threat which could lead to the downfall of the Crown if the cards lined up. Johnson has deliberate set up the situations where if she does, he is on the 'side of the people' whilst she is on the 'side of the establishment'. If she does nothing, she might be exposed still but none action, can be spun as political neutrality.

As David Allen Green points out:
^David Allen Green @davidallengreen
This is now the realm of pure politics

No court is likely to intervene - and it is not obvious what remedy a court could even grant so as to satisfactorily resolve the matter

"Not justiciable" as judges sometimes say

As we have seen so far, the opposition have been completely outclassed when it comes to 'pure politics' partly because of tribalism, partly because they lacked the capacity to understand and imagine how bad this could get - they never thought Johnson would go this far (massive tactical mistake) and partly because they so far do not understand whats driving this and have not produced and alternative narrative and explaination to counter those social and political fractures. Indeed everything they are doing is only serving to reinforce and widen those rifts and their complete lack of self awareness has been to blame. Johnson not only sees these fractures, he understands them, knows how to exploit them and most importantly is willing to do anything to retain power.

Authoritarians are always driven by this lust for power and are won't stop for anything. Thats why they are so dangerous and why checks and balances were put into the system. The trouble is the opposition didn't read the signs and are flapping in the wind now its reached the point where they suddenly realise its too far gone to be able to do much. The runaway train is firmly off the rails.

This all comes a day after the opposition apparently have agree a strategy to oppose No Deal. Which seems to include a VoNC. Remember this will always require Tory Rebels as even working together the Opposition haven't got the numbers - especially considering there are a few Labour Brexiteers.

This is being framed as a coalition of anti-democrats (which is something of a contradiction on several levels) by the government and the Brexit Party.

They have signed a pledge to set up an alternative parliament if government does prorogue parliament. This is full on civil war era stuff aka as a full blown constitutional crisis. Its actively into dangerous terrority. And as such, we very much into talking about the very real possibility of civil unrest. This is no longer something that can be considered hyperbole.

The timetable of this would see parliament prorogued just a few days into September (next week), closed to prepare for a new Queen's Speech and returning around the 17th October remembering the crucial final EU sumit on the 17th October. A VoNC doesn't necessarily mean the government will go though. There is no legal requirement to force the government to stand down. We may yet end up with a situation of two governments claiming legitmacy at the same time in late October. Prime Ministers Corbyn and Johnson.

A GE might eventually be the result of such a constitutional crisis but we would be way past 31st October before that happens.

Would we end up with an extension in such circumstances? Well the Prime Minister has to ask for one formally from the EU and the EU have to agree to one.

The problem being, who do the EU recognise as our PM?

We also have things coming into legal effect on the 1st November which would otherwise need revoking by parliament.

Which Parliament?

Things are going to get very very messy indeed.

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lonelyplanetmum · 28/08/2019 20:22

It's astonishing that more Conservatives are not deeply perturbed.

This. Why the hell aren't they?

At the very least even someone who endorses all of Johnson's moral shabbiness must see that this sets a precedent. Do those Tory village devotees really want a Corbyn successor in 5 years time suspending Parliament to ram through unpopular policy?

Hoooo · 28/08/2019 20:23

I think its what remainers like me want to believe...

But this is Bojo.

He is a liar first and foremost.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/08/2019 20:23

Tory hedge-funders will be delighted about Sterling again and looking forward to an even bigger payday

I wonder how much e.g. Crispin Odey has made so far in total

He made an estimated £220m profit from the ref result alone.

Must be a lot more since, as he has boasted that each day of Brexit-related political crisis is a “good day” for him and his hedge fund

RedToothBrush · 28/08/2019 20:24

David Allen Green@davidallengreen
Boris Johnson has today offended something far deeper than any mere constitutional principle

This suspension of parliamentary democracy breaches the sacred principle of fair play

The consequences of such a breach can be profound

Boris Johnson's trickery today is nothing more than the constitutional equivalent of Maradona's Hand of God

Shameless cheating in plain sight

Who here has played monopoly?

Now who has played monopoly and never cheated?

I dislike monopoly. It's a game where the person who slips in the extra £500 note when passing go, always wins.

Geoff Goodhew @ geoff332
Fair play is for the plebs. Mostly they're rules to stop them beating old Etonians. For old Etonians, rules are things you change to make sure you win.

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woman19 · 28/08/2019 20:24

You might not like it, but as someone else tweeted earlier: you don't bring a rulebook to a gunfight

The semantic register of the chronically intellectually and physically impotent.

Guns are illegal here.

But then so is beating up your girlfriend, not paying child maintenance, theft of public funds and conspiracy to beat up journalists.

Oh, and that and being Kompromat.

But then we used to operate by Rule of Law.

wheresmymojo · 28/08/2019 20:24

I can attest that 80% of Tory members have lost their minds. They're a lost cause.

20% remain reasonable people.

Hoooo · 28/08/2019 20:24

If this was any other nation on earth this would be called a coup.

But...we're British after all!

RedToothBrush · 28/08/2019 20:25

Good old fashioned Northern bollocking

Jess Phillips is from Birmingham...

Birmingham is not Northern.

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Myriade · 28/08/2019 20:25

@mama345, I dont think so unfortunatly. That government has been elected afterall (unlike BJ).

What stands out for me is that it highligts what isnt always said that clearly. That proroguing pariament might be 'legal' but itsstill deeply undemocratic and should therefore be illegal iyswim.
It also highlights the act BJ is no better than Orban, someone so many british people thought they/the british government were way above.

flouncyfanny · 28/08/2019 20:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Outsomnia · 28/08/2019 20:28

I think UK people are punch drunk, and now oh so stoic.

But let's say those opposed got organised for a protest. What do you think might work? I'm talking peaceful here of course.

How about blocking the motorways by lying on the ground (letting police know of course, don't want any deaths or injuries)

I dunno, but if the means to travel for work or pleasure is compromised peacefully it might have its day in court.

Whatever happens, remain peaceful. But make your point.

Would enough people join in though? I dunno.

wheresmymojo · 28/08/2019 20:29

Have just double checked - mainly:

  • Thrilled
  • Sharing meme of Boris drinking from a mug with 'Lefty Tears' on it
  • Over the moon
  • Can't stop the Queen; that's treason
  • Only sensible option against undemocratic hypocrites
  • Puts anti-democratic Remainiacs in their place

Repeat ad infinitum.

Then a couple of sensible people. One a Leaver who is anti-no deal and one a Remainer.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/08/2019 20:31

When the film is made about these events, they'll have to nick the title of that 1980s novel by Chris Mullin
(he was a Labour MP, prominant campaigner to free the Birmingham Six)

"A Very British Coup "

wheresmymojo · 28/08/2019 20:31

*Jess Phillips is from Birmingham...

Birmingham is not Northern.*

It's all relative, I'm from Stoke but refer to myself as Northern here because to people in Hampshire I am Northern. I may as well have a whippet and a flat cap.

FractalChaos · 28/08/2019 20:32

So Trump shut down congress. Now Boris is shutting down parliament.

Interestingly, I have been scanning the channels on TV and no mention of the protests. Wasn't on BBC front page but has been mentioned briefly on the Guardian live feed. Loads of videos on twitter. Now on Skynews so will see what they say.

Amazing numbers of people for something organised within hours!

I asked earlier, but we have been somewhat sidetracked...can someone explain yesterdays alternative government, please? I think I missed a bit due to work.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 28/08/2019 20:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 28/08/2019 20:32

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/home-office-advert-for-post-brexit-scheme-banned-for-misleading-europeans-zfmv2lbp5?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1567011793
Home Office advert for post‑Brexit scheme banned for misleading Europeans

A Home Office advert promoting a scheme to enable EU nationals to stay in post-Brexit Britain has been banned because it was misleading.

Officials in the department have been told by the Advertising Standards Authority that the advert must not be broadcast again in the same form.

The ASA was asked to intervene following a complaint by a member of the public about a radio broadcast shortly after the nationwide roll-out of the application process for the EU settlement scheme.

The ruling is highly embarrassing for the Home Office given that the advert is about a flagship scheme it launched to enable 3.7 million EU nationals to register to stay in the UK after Brexit.

The irony being a politician could say exactly the same on the 6pm news and no one could have it removed from broadcast. It would be down to journalists to question it and point out the inaccuracy, but I'd still be believed by some viewers.

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flouncyfanny · 28/08/2019 20:32

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BigChocFrenzy · 28/08/2019 20:34

List of organised protests this Saturday, several cities:

https://www.anothereurope.org/stopthecoup-join-the-nationwide-wave-of-protests/

Hazardtired · 28/08/2019 20:36

That MEP thing is interesting but what can the actually do except agree there's a coup and that cunt is really annoying?

hooo did you ring the EU and set it up Grin

woman ❤ thank you

LurpakIsTheOnlyButter · 28/08/2019 20:36

I will probably never get to the end of this thread and I've been sitting quietly for a while here but here's my thoughts.

  1. BJ has played a magnificent game and has everyone exactly where he wants them
  1. It has to be this way because if remain won at the 11th hour it would be even worse. Remainers are less likely IMHO to go around smashing things with bats and setting fire to stuff.
  1. Whatever happens afterwards, BJ doesn't care, he did his job
  1. When no deal happens all the shit that goes wrong will be someone else's (EU) fault
  1. Democracy is broken and it will be a very, very long time before we get it back...if ever
  1. I'm off to stockpile. Again. In earnest. No one can stop this machine. I've signed the petition but we all know how that works.

I'm very tired and resigned to this. I hope and pray I'm wrong but I think there is nothing can be done by parliament, the EU or the courts to stop it.

flouncyfanny · 28/08/2019 20:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 28/08/2019 20:40

I'm from Stoke
Many condolences

but refer to myself as Northern here because to people in Hampshire I am Northern

I'd be in denial about coming from Stoke too. DHs family are 'from Sheffield'.

So people from Hampshire refer to themselves as 'practically French'? (This definitely seems attractive to me).

I may as well have a whippet and a flat cap.

Steady on now, you only get those after you cross the Manchester Ship Canal.

Do you live in a cardboard box too?

Jess Phillips isn't Northern. She's from the Midlands. Where's your Midlands Pride? Peaky Blinders Ffs!

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