Westminstenders: 30 days to save us all!

[RedToothBrush]

It's quite remarkable to watch the British press atm.

It's like it doesn't understand English. Well only if its English spoken by foreigners.

Merkel made the observation that the UK had spent two years looking at the Irish border but had failed to come up with a workable solution, and now Johnson has waltzed in and made statements about how the backstop must go, and only has 30 days in which this can be achieved.

The British press writes this up as Merkel giving the UK a deadline to come up with a new solution.

Which is nonsense. The UK have a deadline to save itself, from itself and that's 31st October. This is a self imposed deadline.

Meanwhile comes out with the Brexiteer smack down that he didn't think the UK wS leaving the EU to regain its sovereignty only to become a vassalage or junior partner to the US.

Both these ideas being the result of leaving the EU have long been key issues. From before the ref. Both have been the UK's to solve in order to get the terms the UK wants from a deal.

The referendum was about choosing to align with the EU or to ditch that and rights and align closely with the US. Then Trump happened and the sell on this got harder, but still essentially the same. And it continues.

And then there was the Irish border. The magic solution to Brexit that doesn't break the GFA. I personally think there isn't one as long as the DUP have their red lines about the Irish sea.

So here we are. More than 3 years after the ref.

Leavers still have no plan. Apart for charge headlong over the cliff. Remains still have their heads wedged up their own backsides and also, after spending months criticising every one else on social media anyway who makes a stand again this bull shit.

Yet the newspapers fail to report what Merkel said or why the UK has this issue in the first place. Its an ongoing exercise in national delusion and self denial.

You can chuck the insults all you like but the reality is Tory MPs will not vote for Corbyn and if all JC is a temp figure head and Starmer or whoever will negotiate an extension etc, then it doesn't matter does it?

Unless JC wants the mantle of having been PM?

fwiw i am comfortable with sticking to my principals over Brexit, if others wish to change their stance, that's up to them but what they are doing is giving in to bullying from the far right and that will only end one way.

I can't stand Corbyn (stronger than not tholing him ) and think that the situation we're now in is due in a large part to the splinter in his backside and his barely suppressed Lexiter inclinations (if he'd been serious about trying to find an alternative, he wouldn't have whipped on the indicative votes and/or the Cherry motion),yet even I can see that the Anti No-Dealers must do that hold their noses and meet with him. Whether we like it or not, he is the leader of the official opposition not that he'd been doing any

At least the SNP have agreed to meet him.

Just catching up...in reference to this morning's posts about 1930s Germany I had a recommendation from an online FT book group to read 'Defying Hitler: A Memoir'.

Written about the period from 1929-1939 when it abruptly stops due to outbreak of the war but a really good view of what it was like to be an ordinary person who wasn't a Nazi fan (to say the least) during that time.

I only started this morning and already more than half way through as it's a great read...

Happy to post on to someone once I've finished if anyone is interested.

Corbyn could stand aside for Watson, Beckett, Clarke, Starmer, Cooper. There's no constitutional reason for it to be JC. He must know that for some wavering Tory MPs he is a step too far. He should make a magnanimous gesture and step aside and then take his chances in the forthcoming election. Oh and BTW I am a Labour party member as are DD and DH (and we all voted LD in the Europeans - country before Party).

Looking on from afar thankfully, I cannot but feel a great deal of empathy with those who KNOW crashing out is a disaster, whilst at the same time looking on in awe at those who insist it will be fine.

If I hear one more reference to the War I will seize up, with due respect to those who fought and died of course, but life goes on.

Why Is UK looking backwards to a war that happened many many years ago? Is is a prop for some insecurity or what? They paid a great price, I know that, but they were not the only Allied country to suffer.

My deepest apologies if that offends anyone.

It is a maelstrom of the highest order. But I am getting the feeling that there is a plan somewhere to mitigate the worst of this . Am I mad to think this?

I can also recommend Defying Hitler. Written by Sebastian Hafner's father, it tells of how the Nazis became more and more oppressive.

Oh ds1 would love to read that mojo

I can pay postage? X

@Hoooo

Don't worry about postage

Just PM me your address and I'll send it on to you when I'm finished...

Sorry to go on but all he would do as a caretaker PM is let Starmer negotiate an extension and then take the country to a GE where is the problem in that other than ooooooo scary bad man Corbyn

Well, seeing how he’s used his years as Leader to give the far left a death grip on the Labour Party, some of us are naturally wary of giving him a chance to do the same thing with the entire country. Because he would bloody well take it!

yet even I can see that the Anti No-Dealers must do that hold their noses and meet with him

Of course but even if Christ himself was leader of the opposition, it isn't guaranteed the vnoc will won, likely to be just 1 or 2 votes in it, remainers cannot be sure of winning at all.
BJ is almost certainly going all out to win over wavering tories and brexit loving lab MPs, if he hasn't started already!

The opposition need to be equally cunning, if this is the route they decide to go down

You can chuck the insults all you like

Sorry jasjas I wasnt trying to be insulting to anyone on the thread, I dont see why he should have to stand aside he was elected as Labour leader by an overwhelming majority of the party members, those who wont countenance Corbyn as caretaker then theyre are enabling No Deal, the Cherry ammendment was nothing more than remainer unicorns

far left

Jesus I rolled my eyes so hard at that, can we refrain from the MSM tropes cendrillion they dont tend to lend anything to the discussion except more soundbites which I think were all pretty fed up of them at this point

Can someone explain the idea behind having a vonc and then a GE?

Won't we just end up with Tories in a minority gov again?

MSM tropes is ironically a trope used by, shall we say, alternative media sources such as the Canary, Squawkbox, Novara, RT, etc.

And I’ll damned well call the far left exactly what they are, thank you very much. Half the posts of this thread seem to think we’re in the middle of The Rise of Hitler Mark II, so there’s plenty of political hyperbole to go around.

Why Is UK looking backwards to a war that happened many many years ago? Is is a prop for some insecurity or what?

My take on it is that it comes from a similar place to what we would call 'small man syndrome'.

There is a particular type of person who cannot bear not to be the 'Alpha' in any situation - whether on a personal or national scale.

However they find themselves in a country which, while it was great before they fucked it up is not a superpower any more.

But psychologically they can't move on from wanting/needing to see themselves as living in the UK that was The Empire and World War Winners.

They conveniently forget/refuse to believe anything that doesn't fit with this narrative.

So The Empire was a Great Thing and didn't cause any other nations/people any harm. In fact they should be glad we were there to show them The Right (British) Way To Live. They should be forever grateful that we deemed them important enough to kill/put them in black holes/starve/put them in camps civilise them.

The World Wars that We Won were won by the UK alone. In fact the UK fought alone against ALL Europeans and Won. Absolutely no-one else was involved until the US helped out a little at the end of WWII. We didn't need them, we had it all under control in our plucky little fishing boats. We let the US feel like they helped more than they did just to pet their ego now and then.

We are still the Supreme Nation in their heads; anyone who thinks otherwise is a Traitor and Remoaner and is actively causing Brexit not to work properly somehow by their thoughts like weird telepathy

Of course - none of these people actually fought in any wars. But don't point that out to them - especially don't point out that they no more fought in those wars or have any more claim to them than a left wing, Extinction Rebellion, social justice fan as that makes their heads explode and drip down the walls. And it does make quite the mess.

As much as I despise Corbyn, and I really do, I think we have to work with what we have to avoid No Deal.

Can someone explain the idea behind having a vonc and then a GE?
*
Won't we just end up with Tories in a minority gov again?*

IMO we'll end up with Tory & BXP in coalition

IMO we'll end up with Tory & BXP in coalition

I think theyll end up robbing each other of votes unless BJ comes all out No Deal in a GE Campaign and then watch all the blue kippers flock back, at least Labour is offering a PV in all circumstances [shrug]

mojo

I'll stick to my vonc, care taker PM, MP debate on if leave in a PV should include no deal, PV and then a general election opinion then.

We could just as easily end up with a Lab/LD/SNP coalition of sorts.

But whatever govt is voted in, at least the UK would have expressed what it wants in a binding vote.

justanotherposter don't worry, we all get a little heated at times, i'm no saint!

I'm of the opinion that anyone who wants to stop no deal should be willing to work with Corbyn. But also that if Corbyn wants to stop no deal then he has to be willing to step aside for a short period of time. If everyone met up actually willing to compromise instead of drawing red lines and not budging then they could probably find a fudge to make everyone happy (ish).

They are all as bad as each other. the answer to 'why should xyz have to abc, when they're mno' is: because this isn't about them and what they want. It is about doing what is right and doing whatever it takes to protect the country. If they can't do that - then they have to shoulder some of the blame for whatever happens.

pretzels I nearly nodded my head off in agreement

Would we be taking it serious if Caroline Lucas was telling Nicola Sturgeon to stand aside? Or if Anna Soubry was telling Jo Swinson to stand down but because of the Corbyn hate were meant to take Jo Swinson seriously on this? Does anyone remember Clegg saying the same thing about Brown in 2010, just think its the LibDem brand and were was Swinson during the 2016 referendum Corbyn was a damnsight more active than her on the Remain front

Oh wait wasnt she unseated in 2015?

That might be my bad lol