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Brexit

Westminstenders: 30 days to save us all!

970 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/08/2019 00:28

It's quite remarkable to watch the British press atm.

It's like it doesn't understand English. Well only if its English spoken by foreigners.

Merkel made the observation that the UK had spent two years looking at the Irish border but had failed to come up with a workable solution, and now Johnson has waltzed in and made statements about how the backstop must go, and only has 30 days in which this can be achieved.

The British press writes this up as Merkel giving the UK a deadline to come up with a new solution.

Which is nonsense. The UK have a deadline to save itself, from itself and that's 31st October. This is a self imposed deadline.

Meanwhile comes out with the Brexiteer smack down that he didn't think the UK wS leaving the EU to regain its sovereignty only to become a vassalage or junior partner to the US.

Both these ideas being the result of leaving the EU have long been key issues. From before the ref. Both have been the UK's to solve in order to get the terms the UK wants from a deal.

The referendum was about choosing to align with the EU or to ditch that and rights and align closely with the US. Then Trump happened and the sell on this got harder, but still essentially the same. And it continues.

And then there was the Irish border. The magic solution to Brexit that doesn't break the GFA. I personally think there isn't one as long as the DUP have their red lines about the Irish sea.

So here we are. More than 3 years after the ref.

Leavers still have no plan. Apart for charge headlong over the cliff. Remains still have their heads wedged up their own backsides and also, after spending months criticising every one else on social media anyway who makes a stand again this bull shit.

Yet the newspapers fail to report what Merkel said or why the UK has this issue in the first place. Its an ongoing exercise in national delusion and self denial.

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BigChocFrenzy · 25/08/2019 20:45

Nikki Halley is an Indian-American (Sikh origin) which wouldn't go down well with white supremacist.

She has carried out many thoroughly nasty hard right votes & actions, especially against women
and at the UN tried to bully & threaten countries who didn't vote the US way

However, even she is less extreme than most of the current batshit GOP

She supported successively two of Trump's opponents (Rubio & Cruz) and said she "wasn't a fan" of his,
so it's surprising he gave her the UN job (she resigned after a disgreement)

woman19 · 25/08/2019 21:02

Chemical 'event' Number 3.

www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/aug/25/beachgoers-left-gasping-for-breath-after-incident-in-essex

3rd time in last few months?
South coast.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/08/2019 21:06

"a brexit deal is brexit "

That's just saying you'd rather the country was wrecked, risk shortages of meds etc,
rather than accept anything but Remain
That's Remainer fanatacism.

Why don't the most fervent Remainers listen to the EU ?

The EU have accepted the UK political realities and keep urging the WA as the least bad outcome for both sides.

No Deal is the absolute worst case for the UK & the EU
No Deal will drive us as far from the EU as possible, towards the US far right govt.

Under No Deal, the UK govt can do what it wants, no more EU constraints

Within the WA transition period, the UK govt would have to obey EU rules, which would force the govt to e.g. maintain EU workers rights, environmental standards

It gives a breathing space for politics to calm down
The transition period could als be repeatedly extended by mutual consent, modifying the treaty

The WA leaves open the future relationship
If BJ is toppled after a GE, then a new govt could use the transition period to negotiate a much closer relationship with the EU, which would inevitably prevent the race to the bottom and US standards.

orangeshoebox · 25/08/2019 21:07

happened last year as well.
scary
hope everyone recovers well

BigChocFrenzy · 25/08/2019 21:10

Remainers don't have a majority in the country,
but allied with soft Leavers we could prevent No Deal and hence prevent the hard right winning everything

I will judge the Meatloaf Remainers in Parliament if we end up with No Deal
If there are food price rises later and maybe even shortages / swaps of some meds
If the economy crashes and many people lose their jobs

Those MPs won't have done their own jobs properly

Jason118 · 25/08/2019 21:21

Remainers don't have a majority in the country
I wouldn't be so sure. I see agreeing a deal as tantamount to appeasement, call me what you like but I won't settle for anything less than remain. Leaving is wrong and I will call it as a I see it for as long as i can.

NoWordForFluffy · 25/08/2019 21:24

Exactly, BCF. Pragmatism should rule here. EVERYTHING should be about stopping no deal, even if that means accepting leaving with a 'deal' (yeah, the WA isn't a deal, but it gives us the transition period so we don't fall off a fucking cliff).

Clinging on for a remain unicorn is stupid and dangerous at this point in time. We're at the brink of disaster as purest remainers need to grow the fuck up and realise this (as do people who really think that Corbyn as brief PM is worse than no deal. I mean, I can't stand the bloke, but worse than no deal? Get a fucking grip.

jasjas1973 · 25/08/2019 21:25

BCF

No its not, why should i settle for Brexit?

We are making the same mistakes as Germany in 30's, we appease these people and they take more.

If BJ is toppled after a GE ? and what if he is not? he has delivered Brexit, there are no shortages and the UK will vote back in Boris because he has delivered.

NoWordForFluffy · 25/08/2019 21:26

But, @Jason118, what if remain just isn't possible before the end of Oct? What if the choice is deal or no deal? Are you saying that you'd prefer no deal? If so, you're as bad as - and facilitating - Johnson and his ilk. And I judge you as harshly as I do them.

woman19 · 25/08/2019 21:26

I will judge the Meatloaf Remainers in Parliament
Which MPs are you thinking of?

NoWordForFluffy · 25/08/2019 21:29

Jo Swinson, Dominic Grieve, Anna Soubry? Off the top of my head.

woman19 · 25/08/2019 21:30

How? What have they done 'wrong'?

NoWordForFluffy · 25/08/2019 21:33

They'll do 'anything to stop no deal' except work with Corbyn. So, actually, that's not 'anything'. Hence Meatloaf.

jasjas1973 · 25/08/2019 21:34

NoWordForFluffy

A deal lets the Cons off the hook, will ensure they win the next election and will drive us further and further to the right.

Hoooo · 25/08/2019 21:34

Historically, appeasement doesn't have a great track record....

NoWordForFluffy · 25/08/2019 21:35

Great, let's no deal then! Can't wait. #sarcasm

NoWordForFluffy · 25/08/2019 21:36

Maybe we wouldn't have to think about 'appeasement' if the bloody remainers in Parliament weren't so fucking ridiculous.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/08/2019 21:40

No Deal gives the UK hard right the opportunity to do anything they want

The WA hamstrings them - hence their bitter hatred for it

woman19 · 25/08/2019 21:40

Historically, appeasement doesn't have a great track record
I agree, Hoo

And, Swinson, Grieve and Soubry have been nuanced and flexible as we all have to try to get through this.

On a personal level they have been extremely brave too.

This 'chemical incident' is seriously concerning. Seriously bad.

I told a ex military, leaver dickhead man, of course, 'in real life' pre referendum, that our security would be compromised by the 'brexit'.

Kids have been injured in this one like the other ones.

This is very concerning.

NoWordForFluffy · 25/08/2019 21:45

They're not being flexible enough though. Now is not the time for political or personal grudges. Now is the time for remainers to pull together and do EVERYTHING to try to stop no deal. It's remainers refusing to work with each other that actually hand victory to to hard right. And their inability to work with each other which is scaring me, because I'm really scared of no deal.

woman19 · 25/08/2019 21:48

It's normal in situations in which people are scared to blame the victims.fluffy
Doesn't help much though.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/08/2019 21:50

Nothing like appeasement in the 1930s
The govt is not breaking international law (not even the gfa); noone is going into the gas chambers

Voting for Brexit is a decision I consider dreadful for the future of the UK, but it is legal
52% of voters chose it
and opinion hasn't changed enough to reverse that decision

The country is split down the middle; hence we need to compromise

Merely telling the plebs they were stupid, so we'll ignore their vote, is not a strategy that will work
and is anyway dreadful for the future of democracy in this country

Remainers made that mistake only days after the referendum, demanding a 2nd ref out of sheer arrogance
and hence forever poisoning the idea of a PV once we actually had good grounds - the illegal conduct by Leave.

NoWordForFluffy · 25/08/2019 21:50

The MPs are not victims though. They could've done more to stop this before now (by voting for the Cherry amendment, for instance, or actually FOR something in the indicative votes).

WE are the victims, NOT the useless bloody MPs.

jasjas1973 · 25/08/2019 21:53

It's remainers refusing to work with each other that actually hand victory to to hard right

The only people forcing no deal and victory to the far right are the fucking Govt.

However, if Parliament argues amongst itself and allows BJ to carry on regardless, then yes you are correct.

NoWordForFluffy · 25/08/2019 21:57

No deal is the default. Nobody has to do or force anything to make it happen.

The remainers HAVE to DO something, come up with a plan and actually WORK TOGETHER to stop it. If it's even bloody possible. And all evidence shows they're too fucking stubborn to just bloody be pragmatic. Therefore enabling no deal.