Westminstenders: 30 days to save us all!

[RedToothBrush]

It's quite remarkable to watch the British press atm.

It's like it doesn't understand English. Well only if its English spoken by foreigners.

Merkel made the observation that the UK had spent two years looking at the Irish border but had failed to come up with a workable solution, and now Johnson has waltzed in and made statements about how the backstop must go, and only has 30 days in which this can be achieved.

The British press writes this up as Merkel giving the UK a deadline to come up with a new solution.

Which is nonsense. The UK have a deadline to save itself, from itself and that's 31st October. This is a self imposed deadline.

Meanwhile comes out with the Brexiteer smack down that he didn't think the UK wS leaving the EU to regain its sovereignty only to become a vassalage or junior partner to the US.

Both these ideas being the result of leaving the EU have long been key issues. From before the ref. Both have been the UK's to solve in order to get the terms the UK wants from a deal.

The referendum was about choosing to align with the EU or to ditch that and rights and align closely with the US. Then Trump happened and the sell on this got harder, but still essentially the same. And it continues.

And then there was the Irish border. The magic solution to Brexit that doesn't break the GFA. I personally think there isn't one as long as the DUP have their red lines about the Irish sea.

So here we are. More than 3 years after the ref.

Leavers still have no plan. Apart for charge headlong over the cliff. Remains still have their heads wedged up their own backsides and also, after spending months criticising every one else on social media anyway who makes a stand again this bull shit.

Yet the newspapers fail to report what Merkel said or why the UK has this issue in the first place. Its an ongoing exercise in national delusion and self denial.

It was fine for MPs to vote against the WA if they thought they could Revoke or get a PV

However, after all the indicative votes failed, they must have known that was it - insufficient support for either.

Now they are saying no to any VoNC that puts Corbyn in charge of a minority govt, even for a few days
Corbyn has thrown the ball back at them, saying Ok maybe find another PM
They can't

If Remain were leading 60:40, the politics would change totally
We have waited and waited, but the popular Remain surge hasn't happened and it won't, before Brexit

That is why all attempts to stop Brexit have failed:
politicians want popular support before they overturn a vote, or else they need to present this policy in a GE or PV and win a majority.

Those of you concerned about the chemical incident, what do you think it might be? I think the explanation of a fuel leak sounds a bit crap, and there was the other one, the yellow cloud further down the coast in 2017, but what do you lot think these things are?

Reports are that Tory Remainers will wait until almost 31 October and even then, won't risk Corbyn becoming PM

More likely, they'll wait too long and / or chicken out

The independent Remainers are also anti-Corbyn, but even more determined to refuse compromise
Their demand to legislate for a PV before a GE loses the votes of 20-30 Labour MPs

Unless MPs put the country first, compromise their ideologies AND we have a lot of luck, it'll be No Deal

Yup really worrying, BirdandSparrow
Fact is fluffy and BCF for a lot of reasons it is what it is. And what it is too late to fix.

imo, these chemical incidents sound like dumping at sea, maritime fly-tipping
Motivated by money, not malice

OK, that makes a sort of sense, BCF. The kind of thing more likely to happen once out of pesky EU environmental laws and so on I assume....... 🤔

So we just accept no deal? Because that's 'purer' than taking a 'deal'?

So many people are accepting and forgiving of the disorganised remainer MPs on here. Even calling them victims (which they're not). Interesting.

I absolutely agree with pragmatism being needed and stopping No deal which is the current default being the most important thing. Spent a very interesting and poignant day at Bletchley Park today and talked a fair bit about the role of fear in behaviour with DH and DS in the car.

It was sparked by an older guy who was a guide saying how we were and lucky things would have been very different if the Germans had actually got here. He had no way of knowing my mum was German and it did provoke an interesting discussion on the way back.

It is important to remember that someone has already lost her life and Soubry et al have been subjected to death threats, however they need to step up now or we are leaving by default.

Historically, appeasement doesn't have a great track record....

No, but it allows an awful lot of damage to be done. Who would have thought in the late 1930s that it would lead to millions being murdered in concentration camps, two atom bombs being dropped, the Cold War with a continent divided for 45 years?
Is that what you meant?

The govt is not breaking international law (not even the gfa); noone is going into the gas chambers.

Not yet!

I now have some sympathy for people in the late 1930s who were possibly trying their best. Only some sympathy because I don't know a lot about them - if they were as mediocre as our current politicians are, then their best was not good enough.

I'd like to thank the regular posters on here- BCF, Red, DGR and many others. Without them I'd know very little about the ins and outs of what's going on, and the possible outcomes. But by ramping up the no deal rhetoric it seems all of a sudden that a deal is somehow acceptable. That during an agreed WA period after 2 years we won't end up where we are now. But 2 years gives a lot of time for spin and we all know which way that will go. Again I say that appeasement to these fuckers, to capitulate with a deal now will lead to worse later on. I will not be part of that, never in my name. Pragmatism can go fuck itself, if we need to experience the real (no) deal to come to our senses, then with a heavy heart bring it on.

I now have some sympathy for people in the late 1930s who were possibly trying their best
You write such lovely posts Peregrina I'm Labour and you're a great and very successful Lib Dem activist. Couldn't be prouder to be on the same side.

It is important to remember that someone has already lost her life and Soubry et al have been subjected to death threats, however they need to step up now or we are leaving by default

Literally very difficult for many MPs to go about 'normal life' right now.
Particularly, and probably exclusively those who understand the constitutional sanctity of being Representative MPs.
And,

The Labour Party is just that, not the Corbyn Party. He looks poorly and weak, and his speech, and his sight are clearly impaired.

Normal Labour Party would care for and replace him if necessary.

SWP works differently. Obviously.

All rather academic as the SWP is delivering the crash out with the gusto that one would expect of those type of men.

But blaming it on 'extreme remainers'

Remember, the SWP blamed the ANC for Nelson Mandela's 25 year prison term.

They are not very nice men.

The Labour Party is just that, not the Corbyn Party. He looks poorly and weak, and his speech, and his sight are clearly impaired

Citation needed

Citation needed

It'd be funny, if the SWP weren't doing this to us.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/24/fermanagh-irish-border-lanes-bad-old-days-returning-no-deal-brexit-bomb

Deja vu at the border, in Co Fermanagh.

Tension mounts.

Can I just say I love twitter parody accounts

DonaId J Trumpets
@DonaIdJTrumpets
Met the unelected fake Prime Minister of the UK today and discussed our 'special relationship'.
I think he actually believed that I gave a shiny shit about him and his deal.
Bring on Brexit, take our chlorinated chicken, and most importantly give me that sweet sweet NHS.
Cofefe

‘I now have some sympathy for people in the late 1930s who were possibly trying their best’ Thank you Peregrina, my Grandparents were those people. I have my Opa’s wedding ring at home which is a reminder of the fact good people can be in a position they hadn’t dreamt about in their worst nightmares and face choices they never thought would be possible they would have to make.

That’s why I am so firmly against No Deal. I have a hefty dose of genetic guilt. DS came up yesterday against someone saying things about the Germans openly for the first time yesterday. I think he currently feels disconnected from his German roots, DD came with me last month so she would probably found that harder to hear. As I said, the man concerned had no idea of my roots - he wouldn’t as I come across as pretty much as a cliche middle class , middle age British woman but there are very much two parts of me. You don’t grow up with a German Mother in the 1970s In the U.K. without doing a lot of soul searching.

And that’s why I am so against No Deal, I absolutely get the no appeasing these bastards point of view but we have been given information that No deal means no disruption to medicine supplies can not be guaranteed. If that does happen , however unlikely, then people will die. No Deal threatens the GFA which is unacceptable. Having to be closely aligned to the EU will put a brake on the destruction of workers rights - the recent proposal of a retirement age of 75 gives good preview of what’s to come if the likes of IDS are given a free hand

DH asked yesterday how the country will ever heal. I said it will be Our DC’s Generation . They’ve been shafted in so many ways. People say how little resilience they have but I find them hugely refreshing - they are as a rule much more concerned about individual freedom and social justice. And some of them are quite wise at a young age. A lot of my DC’s friends are much more clean living than we were at their age. I think they have looked at their parents generation and thought ‘no way’.

I have a lot of faith that they will take up the challenge when their time comes and make a decent job. In the mean time I feel a huge sense of responsibility to fight No Deal to the last possible moment (not that I am able to make much difference in an individual level, but I am trying) so that’s why for me Pragmatism wins.

We’re going to go through a lot the next few months and there are going to be some very conflicting opinions on these threads and that’s without the shills. OYBBK said a while back about the importance of self care at these times and i’m Taking heed of those words at the moment and will keep them in mind over the coming weeks. Apologies for the length of this self indulgent post at this early hour.

Remember, we still have a week or so before Parliament convenes for the autumn. Right now, it's Johnson's time in the media, making pronouncements and saying absolutely nothing of substance.

Let's see what happens then. In the meantime, I am stockpiling and looking for ways to build resilience into my business, household and investments. The 2008 crisis broke my belief in standard jobs as the "safe" option. These shenanigans have broken my trust in our democracy and it's safeguards. Better to know now than in my 60s when the goals move again....

Lovely post post

Doing much the same here...stockpiling, trying to locate meds, trying to save money, having an escape plan for me and the kids.

It's just....some days I find it unbelievable that I'm doing any of the above ^

ER can fuck off. Why cant they find an MP who has land or a large garden, there's bound to be a few, and plant trees illegally? Minimal disruption to normal people, mildly humorous to come home to, gets the point across to MPs nonviolently and whaayhey more trees.

We’re facing a climate catastrophe and you think planting a few trees and a bit of “mild humour” is the answer? Riiiight.

I despair, I really do.

Not forgetting the almost perfect overlap between the most enthusiastic Brexit supporters and climate deniers with links to big climate-destroying businesses.

Not all Brexit supporters are climate change deniers, but all climate change deniers are Brexit supporters.

The "appeasement" i was talking about wasn't the UK Govt's and others in the late 1930s, rather the appeasement that happened in Germany in the late 20s and early 30s, politicians did not stand up to the Nazi party, they put their careers before the good of the country, stayed silent and or played politics.

Our politicians are doing the same, even with BJ and his brexit stance, Farage still has around 15% support, if there is any sort of deal, this will be portrayed as a "sell out" and BXP support could double, with a GE on the cards, BXP would be a significant force in Parliament, where does that get us? how about a coalition with the Cons, farage as foreign sec, chancellor home secretary?
and a con/bxp govt negotiating with the EU ... how would that turn out?

No deal on the other hand, forces the brexitiers to face the electorate with their lies.

24 people a day are dying in London due to air pollution. In this global heating heatwave this weekend, it will be many more.

Stopping the traffic in London probably saves lives.

No deal on the other hand, forces the brexitiers to face the electorate with their lies.

But they won't - it will be the 'Remoaners' fault, then the EUs, now it is Theresa May's for not negotiating hard enough - even though the Tories couldn't get enough of her back in 2016. We have even heard that most MPs are Remainers and they are thwarting it, until it was pointed out to a Leaver that there was an election after the Referendum, and these MPs are the ones the public chose to return to Parliament.

The only thing is, once it gets out of hand which it's likely to do, events can't easily be controlled.

in Germany in the late 20s and early 30s, politicians did not stand up to the Nazi party, they put their careers before the good of the country, stayed silent and or played politics

Not true.

They opposed the Nazi party bravely, but the brown shirts intimidated and killed voters and poiticians.

In the terror of the Nazi threat, the opposition became divided.

After the 1933 putsch, opposition was made illegal.

Sounds familiar, huh?