Westminstenders: A photo opportunity

[RedToothBrush]

Johnson likes publicity.

Any attention is good attention. Whilst you are talking about how crazy his idea is, the less you come up with your own.

And there it is. The lack of plan to stop no deal. Just a bunch of idiots who argue over who is more right about politics without offering up a practical solution.

Unable to see their own flaws.

And leading us ever closer to the cliff edge and operation Yellowhammer.

[Peregrina]

I see that the Guardian says of the Leak: Downing Street has "reacted with fury" and says sources blame the disclosure on a "hostile former minister".

BlowJob ought to have thought of that before he went and sacked so many.

[prettybird]

What I don't understand about the Government's fury at the "leaker" (classic playing the man, not the ball ), claiming that it is one of the former ministers, is that it is apparently dated 1 August after all the former ministers had been sacked

[cherin]

That Priti proposal is unworkable. Only 1m out of the 3m eligible EU nationals have applied for settled status, a % of them would qualify only to pre-settled which is a lot less defined than settled in terms of promises or rights. Half of my colleagues haven’t even started the application, because by the official deadline of Dec2020 they would get directly settled status. Does t mean I can’t send them to work trips to the EU because I don’t know if they can come back or how many hours of immigration queue they can expect???

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

No10 source tells me secret documents produced under last PM were too often "designed to frighten ministers rather than inform the public

huh? If they were intended as secret documents how were they expected to inform the public?

[RedToothBrush]

- "leaks" re no deal to decrease support for no deal/increase outrage among remainers/increase pressure on the opposition to act effectively to prevent no deal
- a simultaneously hard line propaganda war to keep potential Brexit party voters onside

Polarisation and demonisation works for Johnson.

He asks you to pick a side then ramps it up - its harder for voters to emotionally u turn because of 'remainer aggression / hostility' (or more accurately the perception of. Think about every time leavers are called stupid, it plays into the perception of arrogant Remainer looking down nose)

This is all about optics not policy.

Every photo opportunity is important to Johnson.

Ask what he is trying to demonstrate to loyal leavers, not what he's actually saying or how much bullshit it contains.

How can he twist reality for his benefit?

He is actively asking the opposition to do certain things and to fall into his photo opportunity traps. And every time they seem oblivious to it as they are only thinking about how they appear to their supporters rather than how they appear to their critics (and most importantly floating voters). That's the result of remains echo chamber which was a problem during the ref and continued to be. Their inability to see the big picture and understand the nature of the culture war and how they are participating in it.

They do not understand propaganda well enough. That's the problem.

[RedToothBrush]

Does t mean I can’t send them to work trips to the EU because I don’t know if they can come back or how many hours of immigration queue they can expect???

Pretty much. Cos you have to work on that assumption on the basis of not being told any different at this point.

[Frankiestein402]

@mistigri - I'd expect one of the joys of Brexit to be that you to have to present passports twice on each of exit and entry - ie to UK leaving UK and to EU on entering EU then vice-versa. So your scenario should work - though at uk airport boarding gate you'll probably have to show EU passport to prove you can travel and vice versa.
Fun comes at those ports where UK/EU passport controls are yards apart eg cherbourg. Brexit could well mean UK stops being able to have passport control on EU soil?

[BirdandSparrow]

I'm a brit living in Spain (for the last 20 years). Got a Spanish husband and two primary aged Spanish children. They did have UK passports but since the ref I didn't bother to renew them.

I have an Irish passport since the ref, but my Spanish residency card is from way back so says I'm British. I could change it so it says I'm Irish, they'd do that, but I'm also in the (massive, 3 year long) queue for Spanish citizenship and don't want to create problems by changing my residency card before that's been processed (and have been advised not to). All such a ridiculous amount of shit to organize and all for nothing.

Luckily I don't need to travel, so just going to sit tight and hope, but even for a brit abroad with 2 passports it's really fecking complicated.

[RedToothBrush]

From last night

Steven Swinford@steven_swinford
Exclusive:

Govt warned by Home Office officials Britain could face 'another Windrush' over attempts to end free movement of EU migrants overnight on Oct 31

Paper discussed by Brexit XO last week recommended continuing free movement until 2021

Plans were rejected by ministers

The Home Office paper looked at 2 options:

1. Extend free movement until new migration system ready in 2021

2. Require EU migrants arriving after Oct 31 to apply for leave to remain

The Home Office paper warned interim migration system raised 'legitimate concerns of another Windrush'

It said continuing free movement until 2021 would provide 'maximum certainty' to EU migrants

Home Office tonight says both extending free movement until 2021 and requiring EU migrants to apply for leave to remain have been rejected

Priti Patel is looking at a new, undisclosed system for ending free movement on Oct 31

This morning

Simon Cox @ simoncoxfr
Er, “leave to remain” (s3 Immigration Act 1971) IS the only system of immigration control in UK law - apart from EU law based residence....

“Hi everyone, I’m Tom and I’m newly in charge of distribution & warehousing. I’d like a whole new system in place by 1 Nov....

Yes, I know we haven’t designed it - and you’ve told me it can’t be done that fast - but my motto is “NO DOOMSTERS NO GLOOMSTERS!”

Optics.

All about the optics to a certain crowd.

[Myriade]

I think it’s worth remembering we now have a extreme right government in place.
That sort of people doesn’t bother with things being workable or not etc.... they do things according to their own agenda.

My stance on it is to plan for the worst and assume they will implement whatever stupid idea they’ve had, workable or not.

Stopping the FoM is easy at the border. Less so for people who are living in the U.K. already. But then, as it has happened with Windrush, there are many ways to ‘catch’ people (eg the NHS, people travelling back home etc....).
So you would end up with people not going to see their GP etc... until things have been sorted.
Coming from someone who was happy to let Irish people starve, I can’t see that idea being an issue for her.

[QueenOfThorns]

Is ‘settled status’ for EU citizens conditional on a deal being reached? Or is my DH going to be deported on 1 Nov if we no-deal? I can see why it would be a good idea to get rid of sponging higher-rate taxpayers like him who never get ill, they’re such a drain on the country’s resources

Or if he’s going to be allowed to stay, how could he prove that he has the right to be here? There doesn’t seem to be any official documentation that goes with the granting of settled status.

[DGRossetti]

Fascinating - and highly debatable story on the BBC (one that I came across years ago, when I did history)

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49294861

When nerve surgeon Dr Susan Mackinnon needed help to finish an operation, she reached, as she often does, for a mid-20th Century book of anatomy.

Thanks to the complex hand-drawn illustrations - showing the human body peeled back layer by layer - Dr Mackinnon, from Washington University in St Louis, was able to complete the procedure.

The book she had used, the innocuous-sounding Pernkopf Topographic Anatomy of Man, is widely considered to be the best example of anatomical drawings in the world. It is richer in detail and more vivid in colour than any other.

Skin, muscle, tendons, nerves, organs and bone are revealed in graphic detail. It's not for the faint-hearted.

But the book, often referred to as Pernkopf's Atlas, is no longer in print and a second-hand set - there are several volumes - can sell for thousands of pounds online.

Yet despite its hefty asking price, few would proudly display it in their clinic, library or home.

That's because the book's findings came from the bodies of hundreds of people killed by the Nazis. It is their bodies - cut up and dissected - that are shown across thousands of pages.

(contd)

I can just see team Priti driving that story saying "look, executions are actually quite a Good Thing"

I'll just note that the "story" has been a story for over 30 years, so the timing is open to interpretation

[Myriade]

RTB a new system re immigration of EU citizens would mean that the SS is invalid, regardless of whether people have applied or not.

Now THAT is even more unworkable....

We’ve had PR, then transfer to SS and now something else??

Things are actually getting worse and worse for me (as an eu citizen....)

[derxa]

.

[DGRossetti]

Also, note that Boris is starting the censorship of social media - all for the public good, of course. No danger he's setting up a mechanism to pull other "unhelpful" stories ...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49393279

Prime Minister Boris Johnson is ordering urgent action to ensure that children and young people in Britain are protected against measles.

...

The prime minister announced that:

GPs are being asked to promote catch-up vaccinations for children who may have missed out on both doses
Social media companies are being urged to quash misleading anti-vaccine messages

(contd)

73 days to go, so it's easy to imagine in 10 days:

Social media companies are being urged to quash misleading anti-Brexit messages

(of course the real answer is to teach people to stop being thick ...)

[RedToothBrush]

Is ‘settled status’ for EU citizens conditional on a deal being reached?
There was no formally signed agreement, that has been passed by the UK government or the EU into law. All there has been so far is a 'good faith' agreement.

Or is my DH going to be deported on 1 Nov if we no-deal?
Unfortunately, whilst you'd hope not and its unlucky, its also not a given that he won't either.

I can see why it would be a good idea to get rid of sponging higher-rate taxpayers like him
Obviously, the government thinks it is, because all immigrants are spongers, and they must act out this nonsense rather than admit there is such a thing as a productive, useful immigrant who contributes more to society than takes away. Your husband, has afterall taken a good job away from a British citizen.

Or if he’s going to be allowed to stay, how could he prove that he has the right to be here?
Through the use of magical telepathic rays transmitted to the home office. It would help if he is white and has a local British accent too.

There doesn’t seem to be any official documentation that goes with the granting of settled status.
Johnson and Patel haven't drawn them up with crayons yet, thats why.

[BigChocFrenzy]

Gorgeous regals, 🐱 pretty
Always gives me such feline envy

@mother Are your 2 kittens out of the Onesies of Shame ?
< hinting hard for kitten pics ! >

[BigChocFrenzy]

Cockup on top of cockup
Govt by Headless Chickens

And this is before we've left
Even a competent govt with a full-strength civil service would have real problems coping with more than 1 crisis at a time

No Deal Brexit will consist of a whole range of crises continuing simultaneously,
seriously ramping up after about 6 months, unless the govt U-turns or we have a new govt by then.

We worry about the ports being logjammed.
We should be just as concerned about the civil service being logjammed too,
despite / because of how ever many civil servants are transferred to Brexit crisi management

[Mistigri]

I see that the Guardian says of the Leak: Downing Street has "reacted with fury" and says sources blame the disclosure on a "hostile former minister".

Per the Times the leaked document is dated 1st August.

I leave you to draw your conclusions.

[Myriade]

Or is my DH going to be deported on 1 Nov if we no-deal?
Unfortunately, whilst you'd hope not and its unlucky, its also not a given that he won't either.

I dint think they will deport people. For one, they actually need a lot of those pesky EU citizens. They can be quite helpful after all.
And there is no way they have the ressources to find the whole 2 or 3 millions EU citizens in the U.K. And even less so in the middle of a No Deal Brexit.

But they will make it pretty hard for people to stay here. About that, I have no doubt.

[Mistigri]

Stopping the FoM is easy at the borders

Not true. How do you distinguish visitors from migrants?

[DGRossetti]

I hope any UK employees being sent to EU destinations across 31st October have obtained all the necessary indemnities from their employers ?

[BigChocFrenzy]

re ^previous posts about farmers and govt denying any cull in the UK:

Back in the 1990s, the Tory govt and farmers organisations also kept denying the need for any cull due to BSE^
.... eventually 4 million animals were culled

No, we shouldn't have anything like that number killed because of Brexit
However, we should remember how govts keep denying they are going to do something .... right until they do it

I expect several Westministenders are also old enough to remember the horror:

www.independent.co.uk/voices/mad-cow-disease-bse-meat-industry-cattle-vegan-scotland-aberdeenshire-a8592326.html

The pyres across Britain shamed humanity.
Cows were rounded up, shot in the head and then flung into the flames.

Onlookers saw terrified animals desperately trying to escape and being cornered by gunmen.
As the death queues stretched out, some of the poor animals were still blinking hours after they were shot.

(Also has some relevance to concerns over importing US animals kept in unhealthy conditions:
eating meat from unhealthy animals killed people
We shouldn't need reminding of basic facts)

[DarlingNikita]

PMK.

[OhLookHeKickedTheBall]

Thanks red