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Brexit

Westminstenders: A photo opportunity

962 replies

RedToothBrush · 18/08/2019 21:05

Johnson likes publicity.

Any attention is good attention. Whilst you are talking about how crazy his idea is, the less you come up with your own.

And there it is. The lack of plan to stop no deal. Just a bunch of idiots who argue over who is more right about politics without offering up a practical solution.

Unable to see their own flaws.

And leading us ever closer to the cliff edge and operation Yellowhammer.

OP posts:
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DGRossetti · 22/08/2019 09:46

this is the guy who recited Kipling in Mandalay as HMG representative.

(reminds me of an advert ... This is the man who bought into Brexit just as the smart money was moving out ...)

Because this is a man who has never not seen life through any other prism other than that of a posh English twat. Remember Lady Chatterlys Lover ? Is this a book you would like your wife or servants to read ? ? The attitude that exchange lifted the veil on in the upper - ruling - classes never went away. TV and mass communication have conspired to hoodwink the proles (that's us) into thinking that class barriers had fallen. But that's bollocks.

As supporting evidence, here's a quote from JRM, who - in trying to take the fight to the critics, unknowingly (and un-self-knowingly) proved them right:

"I do wish you wouldn't keep going on about my nanny, if I had a valet, you'd think it was perfectly normal."

woman19 · 22/08/2019 10:04

Is it a common German phrase? I don't know.

The Die Welt lady seemed to think it was a very unpleasant use of it.

Don't forget how many women this fellow has caused injury and worse to.

Grinchly · 22/08/2019 10:15

I think it was entirely deliberate. And very rude.
If only we had Mutti in Number 10.

orangeshoebox · 22/08/2019 10:18

"wir schaffen das"
is what 'bob the builder' says when the bodge job is put right again.

Peregrina · 22/08/2019 10:24

so painted himself into quite the corner!

Indeed so, because she didn't talk about 30 days only.

It reminds me that we were going to make a Titanic success of Brexit.
Those words too are likely to come back to haunt Johnson, if or when food shortages hit, and people start rioting.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 22/08/2019 10:35

Those words too are likely to come back to haunt Johnson

I'm very sure you wont here a peep about it in the MSM

AuldAlliance · 22/08/2019 10:46

"Aber man kann sie vielleicht ja auch in den nächsten 30 Tagen finden. Warum nicht? Dann sind wir ein ganzes Stück weiter”

The distinction between "man" and "wir" clearly indicates who is responsible for finding a solution in the next 30 days, doesn't it?

Yes, Merkel's words have been totally distorted, from a hypothetical musing into an "order".

Peregrina · 22/08/2019 10:46

I'm very sure you wont here a peep about it in the MSM

I will be bunging some money towards LedByDonkeys so that they can advertise it far and wide.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 22/08/2019 10:48

I will be bunging some money towards LedByDonkeys so that they can advertise it far and wide.

I hope more of us do that Peregrina Smile

DGRossetti · 22/08/2019 10:51

I see the BBC have reverse ferreted at breakneck speed.

I imagine there were a lot of frantic messages last night from Boris' backers afraid the buffoon thinks he actually has to get an agreement. now. Presumably they've been reassured that Plan No-Deal is still on course now.

TatianaLarina · 22/08/2019 10:56

Yes, Merkel's words have been totally distorted, from a hypothetical musing into an "order".

Exactly. The you/we distinction is a good point.

DorisDaysDadsDogsDead · 22/08/2019 11:06

A good take on the Irish border situation.

Here is the big intellectual problem underlying a lot of what we're hearing from the UK today. It seems that a lot of people there assume that an absence of borders is the natural state of affairs & that borders are a weird aberration. The assumption is false.

As a cursory glance around the world will confirm borders are the natural state of affairs. Their absence is the aberration. You basically only have sovereign states coexisting without borders within the EU and that is because getting rid of them was the EU's great project.

The EU got rid of borders by having its member states share enough sovereignty that borders were no longer required, since those countries shared the same external trade policy, VAT regime and rules regarding product standards.

This is the only way that borders have been eliminated anywhere. It is a stunning achievement. It has been so successful that many Europeans today have forgotten the days when we had borders and may even assume that you never need them. Many Europeans including fervent Brexiteers

And so they argue that the UK can do whatever it wants on trade and regulation without this having implications for borders. That the UK will never introduce a border with Ireland. That if UK decisions lead to borders, this will be because the EU 'chooses' to 'reintroduce' them.

These claims might be valid if we lived in a world where the absence of borders was the natural state of affairs. Since we don't live in such a world the claims are a logical nonsense and will remain so until someone finds an alternative to the EU's border-busting recipe (CU+SM).

And there is no sign that anyone has done so yet, or will do any time soon, given that we also live in a world in which legitimate traders and taxpayers quite reasonably won't accept being ripped off by criminals illegally smuggling goods across frontiers.

(Law and order, the ability to finance public expenditure, and basic fairness tend to matter to people. The Tories need to remember this when discussing issues relating to borders with people from the rest of Europe.)

If you get rid of the arrangements that allowed borders to be removed in the first place then they will return as an automatic consequence of your decisions. Yours and no-one else's. It really is as simple as that.

However, none of this will stop many in the UK from claiming that the backstop is not required to avoid a hard border, that in a no deal scenario you wouldn't need one anyway, that if there are checks on UK goods at Calais this will constitute 'punishment', etc etc.

And while many making such claims are just being dishonest there are probably others who are genuinely confused. And one reason for that is that they've so internalised the EU's greatest success that they assume that it is the natural state of affairs.

Which is wrong and also a bit ironic.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/08/2019 11:16

Excellent point, Doris

Borders are the natural state of a world with countries
Particularly trade borders

The EU is the exception in having no internal trade borders and hence frictionless trade between countries

However, the prerequisite for no internal trade borders is keeping the same strong external trade borders as the rest of the world

BigChocFrenzy · 22/08/2019 11:18

Merkel used the neutral "man" construction, which is much more common than in English
It can often mean "one" rather than "we"

Peregrina · 22/08/2019 11:21

Besides which, the Leavers were very big on wanting to Control Our Borders, but now they don't, it seems!

BigChocFrenzy · 22/08/2019 11:23

31 days is about the maximum time in practice to allow for,
because tweaking an international agreement is not flicking an App or switch

The UK, if it has a sudden brainwave noone else thought of, Hmm would propose the raw idea
It would be discussed with other countries to see if it even might - not would - be acceptable

and then given to the EU Commission drafters for the first draft

then more detailled examination, especially looking for any loopholes the UK might use - they really have learned not to trust the UK govt

Then more drafts until fial agreement is reached

Then the UK and 27 rEU heads of govt need to sign it

Then the UK & EU Parliaments need to pass it - the UK Parliament being the main problem

BigChocFrenzy · 22/08/2019 11:26

Even though it would only be a relatively small add-on to the WA - not a rewrite - this process would still require several weeks

and although the E27 would almost certainly grant an extension if they think it would result in an orderly (for them) Brexit,
BJ may not be able to survive if he asks for one

Hazardtired · 22/08/2019 11:28

I'm awaiting a leaver think piece along the lines of we need to leave the EU because Merkel, a German, spoke German, which was impossible to translate. This proves it is impossible to effectively negotiate with them and that's why the EU has bullied us for all these years.

LonelyTiredandLow · 22/08/2019 11:30

With BoZo's bots, who would be looking into whether our tax is paying for bots? I'm assuming it is misuse of public funds but am not certain of anything these days. It's following Nige's example and maybe they've twigged the payoff is better than the tiny tap on the wrist Sad

DGRossetti · 22/08/2019 11:34

Weirdly, only last week, DW and I were discussing nuances in language, and how even English can struggle to translate single words without losing something essential in the meaning. (Which cuts two ways of course).

Hence my rant about the English attitude to languages above ... if nothing else, a serious programme to ensure all children learned at least one foreign language (and personally I couldn't care less which one) might imbue us as a nation with a little more comprehension skills. (Which is probably why it will never happen).

SegregateMumBev · 22/08/2019 11:37

The person I feel most sorry for is whoever has to do the real time translating of Johnson's witterings.

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 22/08/2019 11:40

Very belated PMK - is it all still shit?

DGRossetti · 22/08/2019 11:42

With BoZo's bots, who would be looking into whether our tax is paying for bots? I'm assuming it is misuse of public funds but am not certain of anything these days.

Isn't it "investing in future technologies" ?

The real danger is, none of the people spunking money into this tech remotely understand it - they do not know what they do.

(I am reminded of a policeman who could not comprehend how there could be "another copy" of a CCTV tape after I had run one off for him from our security system. In 2009.)

DGRossetti · 22/08/2019 11:44

The person I feel most sorry for is whoever has to do the real time translating of Johnson's witterings.

Surely one of the first jobs for AI ?

(Incidentally, if you want to know how well AI is doing, just look at how dire it still is at processing natural language ..)

LonelyTiredandLow · 22/08/2019 11:46

Yes, it's still shit and now we have footage of the hostage in BoZo's cellar screaming for help and the police can hear it through the door (vis-avis Merkel and the Stop Brexit footage upthread). Not quite at the end of the movie, but almost. This isn't going to be a US ending though...deffo cafe noir.