Westminstenders: A photo opportunity

[RedToothBrush]

Johnson likes publicity.

Any attention is good attention. Whilst you are talking about how crazy his idea is, the less you come up with your own.

And there it is. The lack of plan to stop no deal. Just a bunch of idiots who argue over who is more right about politics without offering up a practical solution.

Unable to see their own flaws.

And leading us ever closer to the cliff edge and operation Yellowhammer.

My company is also full of EU in U.K. and to a lesser extent U.K. in EU.

Think I might start asking some questions about what support the company is offering.

They have previously claimed to have "contacted" everyone concerned (which is 100% not true as they have not contacted me!).

Great opinion piece in the guardian. I think Patel's finally managed to make sure no European will feel kindly towards the UK for a very long time...
For those already here, it's an existential tragedy. Marie Le Conte expresses this very poignantly I think:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/20/eu-citizen-uk-priti-patel-britain-brexit

EU citizens are just good to pick fruit or wipe gran's bum but otherwise they should just shut up- and of course, it's never personal... when in fact the whole country is willing to commit suicide so that people like THEM no longer come here.

My parents chose to retire near me. They're pre settled. Even assuming the hostile environment doesn't affect them too much, it's horrible to think they face either going back to a country where they have no family (I'm an only child) or face the indignities thrown at them by this heartless government. I am very very angry.

we are now entirely blameless for a no deal Brexit
It's those pesky Europeans

I don't suppose there was any explanation of why those Europeans are pesky, when they're giving us something (No Deal) that (according to True BeLeavers) we have always wanted and have been deliberately aiming for since 2016?

@wheresmymojo You're very welcome to spread the word

RE: the pet massacre ... I'm no expert on the history of pet food but I expect most if not all carnivorous pets were eating offcuts from the butcher rather than dedicated petfood (just googled - whiskas was established in 1936 in America - it had probably not made it to Britain in any meaningful way by 1939).
There just isn't much point culling pets today - we don't want or need their share of pedigree chum.
There may however be mass abandoning of pets, if pet food is too hard to come by or too expensive to buy.
Before the March exit day pets at home had announced they were stockpiling to make sure they did not run out of supplies. I hope they are doing the same now (though obviously all responsible pet owners should have a private stockpile of their own, just in case.)

No explanation @TheElementsSong inferred that it's because they won't respond to our foot stamping!

Google British Pet Massacre 1939

Bloody hell. I've read quite a lot about WWII and still haven't come across this. Evidently doesn't fit in with the jolly good old Blitz spirit narrative.

I remember:
"the day after the Referendum, we'll hold all the cards"

Never said that our hand would be empty, but that the EU wouldn't realise

I've known for yonks about the Pet Massacre

However, it is probably one of those bits of info that have to be passed down by a parent or GP who lived through those times, if you're not a folk history buff

Slaughtering anything up to ½ million pets (official figures don't include those hit over the head with a spade)
doesn't quite fit in with the heroic white hat narrative that successive govts have created

I hope it's ignorance of the recent history - due to govt & media erasure / whitewash - of atrocities in NI like Bloody Sunday that makes so many people demand immunity for the British soldiers who deliberately murdered fellow residents of the UK

I've decided I CBA to stockpile for us for No Deal.

Mainly because we're in a privileged position:

• We live near lots of farms, we could probably get access to fresh fruit and veg before it gets sent off, tonnes of surplus eggs around us as everyone keeps chickens

• We have enough funds to weather increases in prices and to pay extra £££ to persuade farmers to put a bit of stock by

• We don't have any food related allergies/intolerances/specific dietary requirements

• No children, elderly or ill people

All in all I reckon we'll be okay going with the flow and will just have to be flexible with what we eat.

I am however stockpiling cat food.

I have to say I didn't know much about Bloody Sunday until I watched a documentary about it a few years ago.

I don't remember it being covered at school - would have been too recent to be covered in 'history'.

Many supporting it on SM though are definitely of the age where they would know. Many of them with ex-military background.

I just cannot get their reasoning at all.

God, this is depressing. The level of delusion from the Tory party is breathtaking.

I know of no one in any position of responsibility or representation who is calling for immunity from prosecution for UK armed services personnel.

What is being sought is twofold:

• That European Human Rights provisions (Council of Europe, nothing to do with the EU!) should not be applied to operations outside Europe.

• That in the case of NI, cases already investigated should not be re-opened unless there is significant new evidence.

In NI there are some ambulance chasers cashing in on Legal Aid by lying to families about the extent of previous investigations, using the Phil Shiner playbook to go after old men.

That European Human Rights provisions (Council of Europe, nothing to do with the EU!) should not be applied to operations outside Europe.

I will probably show my ignorance here as I haven't followed it that closely but...

How does the above have any impact on Bloody Sunday which was an operation inside Europe?

What about the European Human Rights provisions are they concerned about applying outside of Europe? Why would a human right be appropriate to apply according to a geographical area?

Will read up on it this afternoon to learn more about the articles pro and against, any article links welcome

No idea how offensive "Mango Mussolini" may be, so I thought I 'd post this for advice ?

NI is clearly part of Europe. It was the use of Human Rights Act provisions by Shiner and co that cost the nation millions before he was caught and struck off for operating a pork pie factory.

In the case of Bloody Sunday and other incidents in NI, the objection is to re-opening old cases that were thoroughly investigated at the time and for which there is no new evidence. Saville found enough to indict one individual soldier who seems to have fired a lot of rounds that hit a lot of people.

Seems a bit harsh on Mangoes DGR
Bit of Janey Godley too.
"Ruth is pure raging."
twitter.com/JaneyGodley/status/1162290336699473921

I envy Americans their Stephen Colbert. Wish Godley had a regular tv show.

Gavin Williamson (as Defence Sec at the time) seemed to suggest their should be immunity for any crimes more than 10 years ago.

"Defence secretary Gavin Williamson responded by renewing his commitment to protecting veterans, with plans mooted to make them immune for prosecution for offences committed more than ten years ago. On the same day, with the Bloody Sunday decision bound to stir up emotion, MP Leo Doherty had a second reading of his private members’ bill to make the European Convention on Human Rights inapplicable to the armed forces."

Presumably the fact that the Saville inquiry found that one could be brought to trial suggests the initial 10 week inquiry wasn't thorough enough and/or was biased?

On the face of it I was mainly surprised that only one veteran was considered suitable for trial.

Maybe GW would like that rule applied to his own breaches of the Official Secrets Act and misconduct in public office?

Love that woman19

"I'm up to ma eyes in it; ah've as Boris in ma front door and oot ma back door"

Gavin Williamson (as Defence Sec at the time) seemed to suggest their should be immunity for any crimes more than 10 years ago.

There is a debate to be had on the concept of a statute of limitations - or otherwise - in the English justice system. However this is not the time nor place to have it.

It may sound very grand to strut around proclaiming that criminals can never relax and that crimes going back over half a century will be prosecuted, but it's hard to see how such actions serve justice when most people can't remember what they had for lunch last week.

In a parallel MN thread, the disappearance of Suzy Lamplugh is being discussed. Now around July 1986, I was working for a week in Fulham, but if someone suddenly decided I was a suspect, I would have absolutely no way of showing where I was (so no alibi) ...

I also have to call a bit fat hairy bollocks to the idea that England doesn't have a statue of limitations, as mysteriously the CPS managed to leave it "too late" to prosecute a policemane with assault for the death of Ian Tomlinson. It's just another one of those "heads we win, tails you lose" booby traps in English law, which make it quite clear whose justice you are getting. And it sure as hell ain't public justice.

Two things the US generally have spot on are a codified statute of limitations (which doesn't apply federally, and in most states for murder) and the fruit of the poison tree doctrine. Although I despise the casual use of jury stacking, so it's horses for courses.

With regard to soldiers and prosecutions, I have no problem with soldiers acting under lawful orders in a theatre of conflict being given a shield if immunity. The problems arise when it isn't a clearly defined theatre of conflict, and the government want to have it both ways. You are either under martial law, or not. The bottom line is soldiers should not be policing.

One of the few things I have any time for Mrs. T over, was her absolute disgust that the Iranian embassy siege had to be ended by the army not the police - and she put her money where her mouth was.

Woman19

I just came across Janey Godly for the first time this morning
She's amazing!!!

I like this:
twitter.com/i/status/1162290336699473921

And her clip about 'Mammy' where she describes her Mum charging up to the School is genius - impeccable comic timing.

Ireland won't back down. amp.ft.com/content/eaae31b2-c004-11e9-9381-78bab8a70848?segmentId=0052c4bc-c54e-19c6-b165-8800c56b8254&__twitter_impression=true

And if they won't blink, neither will the EU.

I just came across Janey Godly for the first time this morning She's amazing!!!

She's been on HIGNFY at least once (and I think Frankie Boyles NWO ?)

Quite a character