Healing Divisions

[Camomila]

My latest Brexit worry...

If we Brexit, the country is going to be divided, angry, and poorer. But even if we don't, there'll be some angry people.

[Helmetbymidnight]

nice tweet from arch-brexitteer/funder leader of leave campaign today Arron banks about greta thurnberg.

still the brexiteers are rushing to defend him as usual.

can you imagine if jeremy corbyn suggested such a thing while wearing....a raincoat!!

seriously, you'd be hearing their cries of outrage from the fecking moon.

[Oranginna]

I don't come across much anger or division in real life. Only on the Internet.

[Helmetbymidnight]

so you dont believe there is anger or division?

o-kayyy

[Peregrina]

Well, we all tend to live in our own bubbles.

[MeganBacon]

There is a huge amount of Brexit fatigue. People generally just can't afford to waste the amount of energy that it takes to stay angry for so long.

[Clavinova]

TheElementsSong
And there are plenty of Leave posters even on MN who are still spaffing on about the dubiousness of people with foreign taint, whether by blood or birth, or education, or (the horror!) working for employers of foreign origin, or (FGS) having a foreign surname.

Ooh, I think that's me - of course I'm going to point out that the author of the report you've just linked to is an EU academic working at a UK university, or the economist with the English sounding name is actually Irish and based in Dublin or Brussels - all of them easily checked out on LinkedIn. Why would EU nationals publish a positive report to help Brexit?

[Clavinova]

May's deal was hard brexit. Out the CU, out the SM.The goal posts got shifted post referendum. We’ve come along way from Norway style deal.

I disagree;

12th June 2016

"David Cameron confirmed Sunday that he will pull Britain out of the single market if there is a vote to leave the European Union at the upcoming referendum."

"The prime minister told the BBC’s Andrew Marr show that it would be impossible to copy the Norwegian model by remaining inside the trading bloc despite being outside the EU because that would mean accepting freedom of movement and trade rules made in Brussels."

He said the Brexit campaign had made it clear to voters that voting to leave also meant pulling out of the single market.
"The prime minister said he would accept the result as an “instruction” despite warning that leaving would be like planting a “bomb” under the British economy."

"There have been reports that the House of Commons, whose MPs are overwhelmingly pro-Remain, could vote against pulling out of the single market in the event of a Brexit. MPs could claim they were accepting voters’ wishes to withdraw from the EU while protecting them from the economic consequences of leaving the trading area."

However, the Leave campaign has made it clear that in order to restrict immigration and strike trade deals with countries outside the EU, Britain would have to leave the single market.

The prime minister said: “What the British public will be voting for is to leave the EU and leave the single market.”

www.politico.eu/article/david-cameron-bbc-andrew-marr-ill-pull-uk-out-of-the-single-market-after-brexit-eu-referendum-vote-june-23-consequences-news/

[TheElementsSong]

Why would EU nationals publish a positive report to help Brexit?

Gee, I don't know. Why wouldn't they publish something positive about Brexit, if there was a whole bunch of positive stuff to report? Why would we expect people tainted by foreignness to deliberately suppress academic results and tell lies? 🤔

Wait, let me guess - because there's something inherently dishonest and untrustworthy about people tainted by foreignness perhaps? Perhaps because people tainted by foreignness, like the EU themselves, are a hostile force at "war" with Great Brexitannia? Maybe people tainted by foreignness are a propagandist fifth column planning on sabotaging the otherwise ineluctable glory of Brexit?

Gwan, gwan, gwan... do kindly spell it out for those of us who have failed to be suitably suspicious of the dubious integrity of people tainted by foreignness.

[Clavinova]

TheElementsSong
You sound a little naive. My 11 year old has been taught how to consider bias in historical sources - he's written a two-page essay on it (that's private education for you) - he hasn't even started secondary school yet.

[TheElementsSong]

You sound a little naive.

Whereas you sound like you're being unnecessarily coy. Why are you so delicately sticking to insinuation and word-cloudery?

I'm sure your 11 year old would be able to coolly and objectively spell out reasons for said bias in historical sources.

So let's hear it, spelled out, from you. Gwan.

[bellinisurge]

So more little "one of the people " insights from @Clavinova - she uses private education. So "on the front line", aren't you?

[Clavinova]

TheElementsSong
Whereas you sound like you're being unnecessarily coy.

Wait, let me guess - because there's something inherently dishonest and untrustworthy about people tainted by foreignness perhaps?

I am suggesting that EU academics/economists will be on the side of Remain and they are likely to model their research/statistics to benefit the Remain argument - just as those researchers on the Leave side are likely to model their research and statistics for the benefit of the Leave argument.You are naive if you think that doesn't happen on both sides, irrespective of nationality.

bellinisurge*
"one of the people

I wouldn't get too excited - there's a six year gap between ds1 and ds2 - senior school fees are half the cost of Eton and both boys have won 20/30% scholarships.

[bellinisurge]

How on earth do you think you know what's best for this country @Clavinova . You are insulated by money and privilege. You may not be in Australia like our other frequent flyer Brexiteer but you are as distant from reality.

[TheElementsSong]

I am suggesting that EU academics/economists will be on the side of Remain and they are likely to model their research/statistics to benefit the Remain argument - just as those researchers on the Leave side are likely to model their research and statistics for the benefit of the Leave argument.

Could you clarify why one ought to assume that people tainted by foreignness are on the side of Remain?

As for your "researchers on the Leave side", is there a particular reason you're not presenting the corollary to [people tainted by foreignness are biased Remainers]? Is it because it's a bit naked to spell out that proper True Brits untainted by foreignness would naturally be Leavers?

[MeganBacon]

So earning good money and choosing to spend it on education invalidates a person's opinion?

[Clavinova]

You are insulated by money and privilege.

I regard myself as middle class (grammar school girl) - I have a nice house but my car is quite old and our holiday this year was in the UK - the liberal democrat voters I know drive £40,000 cars and send their dc to the same schools as mine...

[bellinisurge]

You live in a rarified monied world. If you think all Remain voters are as upper middle class and monied as you, you clearly know very little and live a sheltered life.

[bellinisurge]

@MeganBacon it doesn't mean you can't have an opinion but @Clavinova is hardly a typical UK resident .

[MeganBacon]

So what if she's not typical? It takes all sorts.

[TheElementsSong]

Megan me personally, far from thinking Clavi's opinion is not valid, it's the exact opposite - I'm desperate to hear, with step-by-step explanations, why we should assume that people tainted by foreignness are by default Remainers (and vice versa), that they are therefore inherently biased against the obvious greatness of Brexit, and thus why we should treat their words/research/opinions/actions/etc with particular suspicion.

[Clavinova]

TheElementsSong
Could you clarify why one ought to assume that people tainted by foreignness are on the side of Remain?

EU citizens of course - EU academics who spent the first 25-30 years in an EU country before moving to the UK - now working for English universities (info courtesy of LinkedIn) are highly likely to support remain - bloody obvious I would think - are you being obtuse?

Is it because it's a bit naked to spell out that proper True Brits untainted by foreignness would naturally be Leavers?

I'm not sure I understand you - I could suggest a few American economists if you like? At least three members of Boris Johnson's cabinet are not white?? Is that what you mean?

[bellinisurge]

@MeganBacon that poster is so far removed from people who will be directly and adversely affected by No Deal Brexit that it is just an academic exercise for them. Just like our dear friend in Australia.
I thought Brexit was about rejecting the monied establishment telling you what to think.

[Clavinova]

bellinisurge
You live in a rarified monied world.

Nonsense - I live in the South East.

[countrygirl99]

I'm a Lib Dem member. My car is a 53 plate C4 and my children went to the local comp. I do earn a decent salary but I'm supporting 4 elderly people too.

[countrygirl99]

I also got assumed of being a champagne socialist the other day. I keep checking the fridge but the fizz hasn't arrived yet.