Healing Divisions

[Camomila]

My latest Brexit worry...

If we Brexit, the country is going to be divided, angry, and poorer. But even if we don't, there'll be some angry people.

[nothingwittyhere]

Since we're obviously stuck with a now completely divided society, courtesy of the dickhead Conservatives who decided to give us a referendum solely to bribe some voters that might have gone to UKIP, we might as well do what's best for the long term economic stability of the UK and revoke A50. Only lunatics give a rat's arse about the supposed political ambitions of the EU and why should lunatics call the shots?

[jasjas1973]

The WA is leaving every aspect of the EU, with a PD that meant everything and anything could have been the outcome, it was a terrible deal for the country and for any remainer.

I don't believe the likes of Grieve opposed it hoping something better would come along, they opposed it because it was a v bad deal, hence the size of its defeat across the 'house.

tbh i was surprised the ERG were against the WA, they would have been able to drive the negotiations any way they wished over the following 2 years, it gave them almost all they wanted.

No-deal isn't a win for ERG/leave at all, it may well mean the Tories are out of power for a generation, probably why it won't happen.

[frumpety]

What is it that people see in Nigel Farage aged 55, that excuses him slagging off the dead mother of the 93 year old Monarch of the country he purports to love. Two women who were actually alive during the Blitz, unlike him. She is a sitting duck because he knows she can never respond or retaliate, just so bloody cowardly and unnecessary. Can you imagine holding anyone in esteem who did this to any other 93 year old woman ? All that money and privileged education, yet absolutely no class Nigel , shame on you

[TheElementsSong]

The WA was a compromise?

[whyamidoingthis]

Norway+ would have been a compromise.

[yolofish]

Thinking on this, I feel that the 48% who voted Remain have been totally ignored throughout the whole 'process' - such as it was - since the Referendum.

Any kind of building bridges need to come from the Leavers instead of 'we won, get over it suckers'.

Of course that wont happen... instead when the shit finally hits the fan it will be the Remainers fault for somehow not getting into the Brexit feelz.

[mindproject]

Personally I'm not seeing any divisions. I'm a left-wing remainer, my friends are all left-wing remainers. I work with some leave voters, but they were never my kind of people anyway, so we don't discuss it. My parents voted leave, but I went no contact with them long before the referendum. On social media I had a couple of arguments just after the referendum, but now I don't waste my time.

Most people are just going to stick in their friendly little groups with likeminded people, they're not going to go out of their way to stir things up. I don't think anyone wants the Brexit shit stirred.

The only thing that would really bring people together is either a cancellation of the whole sorry mess. Or a miraculous successful Brexit with a million free unicorns for everyone. Neither of these are likely.

[Doubletrouble99]

I think, in order to understand Leavers you have to imagine the mentality of a Scot wanting independence from the UK. Do you think they want it for economic reasons? Eh no, Do you think they will care if there is some hardship for a while once they have independence? Eh no.
Well imagine leavers have the same mentality about wanting to leave the EU.

[YeOldeTrout]

If (when) we 'Leave' that will mean that the people who 'Won' are the ones who promoted these viewpoints. I have no idea how Britain will ever be unified again.

[Danetobe]

I think I personally will never be able to get rid of the hurt that was caused by the ref to me. MY grandparents and dad escaped to the UK in the early 30s, which is the only reason they survived the war. I grew up in an EU 27 country and my dad worked nearly all this career playing a very small part in keeping peace in Bosnia and NI alkongside colleagues from all EU countries. I was proud of the UKs contrubution to an imperfect EU, but i still think that peace in europe will be kept when people from all countries feel they have a say. (The UK always did, and I believe it was a well respected and valued member - clearly this was not communicated by the politicians/press). The UK played such a big role in representing the small countries interest, whose populations otherwise may feel like the bigger countries are too powerful. Like many beleavers,the pain is not (only) econimoc for me, its personal. I don't think I'll ever be reconcilled to that way of thinking. Being called a 'citizen of nowhere' by my own PM also didn't help. On the day of that speech I thought about the day I got training AS A CHILD of how to check for and recognise car bombs that may have been planted by the IRA and wondering how terrified my parents must have been to bring us up in that environment. My dad is dead now but he was devastated by the result in 2016. A lot of pain from me and no healing, maybe never.

[TheElementsSong]

The Citizens of Nowhere comment was absolutely disgusting.

And there are plenty of Leave posters even on MN who are still spaffing on about the dubiousness of people with foreign taint, whether by blood or birth, or education, or (the horror!) working for employers of foreign origin, or (FGS) having a foreign surname. Seems like they have no effing problem with division and the Citizens of Nowhere narrative.

[Mistigri]

The Citizens of Nowhere comment was absolutely disgusting.

And the queue jumpers.

[Peregrina]

No-deal isn't a win for ERG/leave at all, it may well mean the Tories are out of power for a generation, probably why it won't happen.

I wish I could believe this. But until Brexit is dead and buried, I can't.

[Dapplegrey]

She is a sitting duck because he knows she can never respond or retaliate, just so bloody cowardly and unnecessary

That is true frumpety but in fairness Nigel Farage isn’t the only person to criticise the Royal Family. Look no further than mumsnet where there are posts suggesting they are lined up against the wall and shot.

[MaxNormal]

I think, in order to understand Leavers you have to imagine the mentality of a Scot wanting independence from the UK.

As a Scot wanting independence I completely disagree. I want it so that we can rejoin an outward looking, connected world and to get away from the financial disaster that Westminster is creating.

There is no place for Scotland with this self-destructive English nationalism that has infected the thinking of many.

[Helmetbymidnight]

yeah, posters on mn slagging off royalty is exactly the same as a leader of a political party - apparently a major force in british politics- doing so as a paid speaker.
exactly.

the divisions will heal as they have to- look at places that have endured far far worse- they have to put the history of hate behind them and get on. reconciliation etc. having said that, Ive no respect for brexiteers and try and avoid them as much as possible.

[jasjas1973]

@frumpety

Farage is now setting the narrative that should the Queen become embroiled in Brexit, she can now be blamed too... a liberal elite, thwarting the Will of the People.

Its what Trump has done too, normalising criticism of people previously thought of as untouchable e.g. the decorated war hero McCain or the muslim ex-soldier with a Purple Heart award.

Dangerous times, reminiscent of the Nazi party era and their early verbal attacks on jews, disabled and the elites.

[Peregrina]

he divisions will heal as they have to- look at places that have endured far far worse- they have to put the history of hate behind them and get on.

Keep looking then - India/Pakistan/Kashmir. Israel/Palestine? Even the Good Friday Agreement wasn't achieved without a lot of hard work.

[Peregrina]

I would hope that the Queen is still much more respected than Farage will ever be. My worry is that she will die or become incapacitated before this is over, and Charles just hasn't got the experience that she brings to the Monarchy. I say this and am absolutely not a royalist but I do think the Queen genuinely wants to serve the country.

[Helmetbymidnight]

how about france/germany?

s.africa, ex-yugoslavia?

we haven't got to the depths of division some places have- so although it will be hard work, it can be done.

[Basilpots]

@Peregrina My. Thoughts exactly about the Queen she has a level of respect that I just don’t think Charles will ever have and I still remember all the fuss about the ‘black spider memos’ he was seen to be meddling in Government affairs. Although on release the letters were not seen as controversial it does suggest he may not be prepared to keep as quiet about political affairs as the Queen is.

[Helmetbymidnight]

it is curious to see brexiteers attacking the judiciary, the civil service, the union and now the royal family.

i wouldn't have predicted it.

[Helmetbymidnight]

can you imagine if jeremy corbyn had said what NF did?
they'd be screaming for a public execution.

[twofingerstoEverything]

can you imagine if jeremy corbyn had said what NF did?
Even worse... imagine if he'd been wearing a RAINCOAT while he said it.