Westminstenders: Charge!!!!

[RedToothBrush]

Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
“Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!” he said.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

“Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred.

Flashed all their sabres bare,
Flashed as they turned in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wondered.
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right through the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reeled from the sabre stroke
Shattered and sundered.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell.
They that had fought so well
Came through the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!

Sounds like defining to me!

People voted to leave the EU.

Brexit is the way it is carried out by the executive as instructed by the government. Who were and are in thrall to the ERG!

I keep nodding at a poster's comments. Look at name of poster. And it always happens to be Peregrina!

OK Jason fair point, so maybe tinker enough with the WA so that there isn't a thing called a 'backstop' but new clauses instead. Clauses surrounding the 'border problems' that give a solution. Bellini has one and maybe others do too

bellini's suggestion is just the original backstop (before the U.K. negotiated the more favourable whole U.K. backstop).

It's not just the DUP that object to the backstop; the ERG also have issues with it as well as other elements of the WA.

I don't want to sound condescending but you are giving the impression that you have not really been following this very closely.

The big issue IMO - and this remains true whether we no-deal on 31/10 or extend again - is that it has proven so far impossible to find a Brexit that Brexit-supporters will agree to. Nothing to do with remainers.

That’s not a solution.

I tried, I failed - to get anyone here to try and see there isn't some far right plot intent on destroying all 'rights' that were ever agreed by the EU, with a lot of input by the UK too.

Maybe that means I've lost 'face', if it does it doesn't bother me. I really don't think that the majority of the very few people who will be trying to find a way through this care much about losing 'face' either.

Hasta manana

Our UK/EU FOM rights lost directly because of the 'brexit'.

Not to mention those of our lovely EU/UK mumsnetter posting on the other thread.

Spain, for example, will continue to provide free healthcare for Brits but only as long as Britain agrees to give free access to the NHS for all Spaniards. Sweden is waiting to see whether a ‘no deal’ goes ahead before announcing any special measures

After Brexit, France will require Brits to obtain a residency permit and pass a self sufficiency test so that they are not a drain on the state. Expats are already finding that people who have lived in France for less than three months may not be granted residency by local prefectures
Germany, which has 100,000 British residents, is only going to allow three months’ grace for its Brits to get residency if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit – although some officials are granting residency permits in advance of the ‘no deal’ date

Brits in Greece will be required to obtain a biometric identity card to stay in the country and register with the police

Denmark has passed a special Brexit Act which is generous to existing Brits and their families resident there, but new people coming to the country will be subject to the Aliens Act, meaning they will only be allowed to take jobs in areas with shortages or research jobs – provided that they have the right qualifications. British visitors will no longer get fast access at ports or airports but will have to join the “other countries” group to be checked by officials

Estonia will allow existing Brits to remain and get residency permits, but new Brits coming to the country will be subject to the Aliens Act. At present, there are no quotas for those from the US and Japanese people coming to Estonia to work and the UK is hoping that this will be extended to the UK – which may explain why Boris Johnson entertained the Estonian Prime Minister this month
Belgium is planning to allow existing long-term British residents to get the right to stay, but Brits seeking work in the country after a ‘no deal’ Brexit will be treated as third country applicants. Whether they can go to Belgium will depend on different rules set by the four regions of the country. It has also proposed stringent checks for British visitors who will have to have the right travel documents, proof of enough money to live during their visit, and details of where and how long they are going to stay in the country. When they leave, they will need proof that they have not overstayed

The Dispatches Europe website advises: “You should really do a deep-dive into the official website because, while there is a worst-case, ‘no deal’ Brexit transition period until 31 December 2020, the Belgians make it clear that after that, British citizens are on their own.

In general, the site warns: “A ‘no deal’ Brexit would push British citizens into a neither-nor purgatory where they would neither have EU citizenship status nor a separate post-Brexit immigration status. What a lot of people – especially British politicians – don’t seem to understand is that ‘no deal’ means no transition time to implement new treaties

bylinetimes.com/2019/08/14/brits-seeking-to-live-and-work-in-europe-after-no-deal-brexit-will-be-left-in-purgatory-as-member-states-plan-to-tighten-up-laws/

Any queues for inbound freight (caused by checks at Dover) would be within the port and in France.

My experience of cross-Channel ferries is that a delay at either end has a knock-on effect on the whole system. (While the lorries are inching their way through customs checks, the ferry cannot reload and depart, so outgoing traffic is also delayed.)
The Operation Stack nightmare in the summer of 2015 was caused by industrial action in France. The volume of traffic is such that any glitch, caused by a check due to suspicions or by someone having incorrectly filled in the paperwork, would have ramifications.

I realise the source of this article will cause certain hackles to rise, but this particular producer, who imports some ingredients to make chocolate and fudge, some of which is then exported, will have a serious amount of form-filling to do to export his products and is struggling to get a clear response from HMRC as to which forms he has to fill in.

link

A ‘no deal’ Brexit would push British citizens into a neither-nor purgatory where they would neither have EU citizenship status nor a separate post-Brexit immigration status. What a lot of people – especially British politicians – don’t seem to understand is that ‘no deal’ means no transition time to implement new treaties

Presumably Leavers are fine with that, because they see people tainted by foreignness (e.g. seeing "abroad" as somewhere to make a home, rather than a brief holiday destination) as wrong 'uns anyway.

@HateIsNotGood

So far no brexitier has ever come up with any benefit of leaving the EU (that we've not got already) the nearest is that it " to save democracy" whatever that means has not been explained especially as it was a non binding advisory vote.

Therefore, it appears to me that the only reason we are going ahead with it is because we said we would, therefore we will and if it leads to violence and deaths in NI thats a price worth paying as we must never give into terrorism....really!

On Newsnight a former Sainsbury's CEO said that planning for no deal, doesn't prevent the effects. Did anyone see the same programme? A piece on the Irish dairy industry highlighted that a high percentage of N Irish milk is processed in the Republic. With a glut of N Irish milk there are warnings that, a few weeks to months after a no deal, farmers could be forced to cull up to 45,000 dairy cows.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-49272343

And the, as far as I can tell, arbitrary leaving date of October 31st no matter the circumstances: "because it's been a long time!"

I personally prefer a unified Ireland

I’m sure you do, as it gets rid of that nasty NI problem.

I've got it!

We declare the Isle of Wight 'Brexit Island.' It will leave the EU with no deal on Oct 31 and anyone who wants this gets a free one-way ferry ticket to leave the rest of us in peace.

Blue Passports and Red Squirrels!!!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3669017-Westminstenders-A-photo-opportunity?watched=1
New thread

We don't have to hunt for conspiracy theories about what the rightwing plan

• just read books and pamphlets wtten by those who are now governmen ministers

e.g. "Britannia Unchained"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/07/boris-johnson-government-britannia-unchained

Seven years ago, a group of Conservative MPs who had taken their parliamentary seats in 2010 brought out a slim manifesto for the future of Britain titled Britannia Unchained.

Kwasi Kwarteng, Priti Patel, Dominic Raab, Chris Skidmore and Liz Truss appeared to speak with one voice:

that of unabashed Thatcherites, convinced that hacking back tax and regulation
and fixating on the demands of “business”
was as appropriate for the 21st-century UK as it supposedly had been for the crisis-plagued Britain of the 1970s.

Some of the text was so provocative that it read like trolling.

“The British are among the worst idlers in the world,”
read one passage.

“We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor.
Whereas Indian children aspire to be doctors or businessmen, the British are more interested in football and pop music.”

To even start to compete with the rising economies of India, China and Brazil, said the authors,
we need to avenge the “dependency culture”

and “stop indulging in irrelevant debates about sharing the pie between manufacturing and services, the north and the south, women and men”.

They advised fellow Conservativess* to double down on austerity,
and maintain their faith in old-fashioned laissez-faire economics.

^They advised fellow Conservativess* to double down on austerity,
and maintain their faith in old-fashioned laissez-faire economics.^

I wonder how long they will get on with Boris Fuck Business Johnson, now he has decided to start throwing money around? Are they sharpening their knives?

I'm sure he'll find ways to hammer the poor down, which is really what austerity was all about

Yes but the poor and vulnerable still vote for him/ them - the Tories.

Definitely we are - but this govt with its WEALTHY Brits Britannia Unchained are not

EORI (Economic Operator Registration and Identification) numbers are required for 3rd country businesses to trade with the EU, import or export.

From what I've read, EORI numbers must be issued by EU Member States
– so the UK govt won't be able to do this after Brexit

Sorry I missed this last night @BigChocFrenzy

The EORI number just identifies the trader to the Customs authorities. They're an EU thing but the 'E' is for 'Economic' rather than 'EU' and HMRC are obviously going to continue using the same system.

International hauliers based in the UK will need a 'UK' EORI number. It's a simple (and quick) matter to get one and it's normally based on the company's VAT number. AFAIK they'll continue to be issued after Brexit.

Apparently UK hauliers also need a EU EORI number but nobody (including HMRC, the RHA and the FTA, but I am a couple of weeks behind with updates on this) seems to know exactly how we get one. If it follows the system for importers and exporters the haulier will presumably need to apply in advance for an EORI number from whichever EU country they first deliver to after Brexit. That we have already passed one no-deal deadline and still don't know this is a bit concerning.

(I've just checked the latest RHA guidance (Aug 6th) and it still says "Operators will need to obtain an EU EORI number but we are waiting for confirmation how this can be obtained before Brexit and action to take." Useful.)

There's no problem at all with applying for an EU EORI from outside the EU though. Every company exporting to the EU has to do it, wherever they're based.

Thanks, @fishes 💐

Yes, border in the Irish Sea would work

It's not a panacea. In value terms, I believe that rUK-NI trade exceeds NI-EI trade. You'd be introducing friction in what is at present largely frictionless trade, and that will hit trade volumes.

I'd favour a border in the Irish Sea over a land border but remainers should be lucid about this: it will be hard border and it will reduce rUK-NI trade. In the short term that could be damaging to NI. In the longer term there might be some opportunities, but we don't know how big they would be.

Yes, it was the EU EORI number I meant

as it's one of the - many - things that would add to paperwork at this end (Germany),
which has all added up to German companies the last couple of years removing UK firms from supply chains as much as possible.

It's not my department, but I've heard here that the German customer would have to apply for the EU EORI number for each UK supplier
They would then would be responsible for any legal / tariff / customs issues / bumf arising from the imported components
e.g. if any were faulty or didn't satisfy EU rules
That's different to now, when it would be the responsibility of the supplier
(I see R North also agrees with that opinion)

I'm also told by a former colleague in that field that they think it's much more complicated for EU aerospace companies with Uk suppliers,
because the rules are stricter than for other sectors of manufacturing;
even nuts & bolts may have different 3rd country rules and certifications

The big problem is that noone here is too sure what will be required with UK suppliers

• especially as we still can't be 100% sure it will be No Deal - but expect it will mean more admin, both of which are obvious disincentives to keep them,

Yes, any goods border will cause problems, wherever it is placed and however it is done
because within the EU we have frictionless trade and after Brexit we won't

Quite apart the specific Irish / NI political issues

Anything other than BRINO means some sort of shitshow for Ireland