Westminstenders: Charge!!!!

[RedToothBrush]

Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
“Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!” he said.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

“Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred.

Flashed all their sabres bare,
Flashed as they turned in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wondered.
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right through the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reeled from the sabre stroke
Shattered and sundered.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell.
They that had fought so well
Came through the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!

Sorry if I missed this in all the discussion, but does it have to be just one person who can command the confidence on the house can become PM?

yes, prices are up already.

Breath-taking to hear Johnson spreading the fear that Corbyn would 'trash the economy'...as he actively trashes the economy...

Labour trashing the economy is ever the Tory rallying cry!

*Currently we have 2 options

1. Support no deal with Boris.
2. Hold nose and accept a GNU with Corbyn temporarily at the helm and avoid no deal.*

It would be simple if everyone knew in advance how everyone else was going to vote. But they do not have perfect information on this, and behaviour that might be rational if you have perfect information about how other actors will behave might not be rational if you don't.

So while from a simplistic perspective, you're right, it only needs a very small number of people to vote the "wrong" way for a VONC to become Brexit-enabling and not Brexit-defeating.

I doubt that any of the remain camp has a fixed position on this yet tbh and people are just amplifying hot takes.

Note that there's also a good deal of bad faith in this process of amplification: just seen someone on twitter swearing never to vote LD again due to Swinson ... when he has JC4PM in his bio. Don't believe that the shills and the fakes are only on the Brexit side.

I feel like there's more time than the panicked posts in various fora suggest. Maybe there's enough time to try first for parliament taking control of the order paper, and if that fails, a VONC with GNU attempt.

I think this is what the Change U.K. folks think.

I don't know whether or not I agree (cos not really qualified to have an opinion on the fine detail of parliamentary timings) but it's not on the face of it completely unreasonable.

Especially if you think that there is a risk that a VONC results in a new GE rather than a GNU.

"Breath-taking to hear Johnson spreading the fear that Corbyn would 'trash the economy'...as he actively trashes the economy..."

YES! In all honesty, they really can't use that line, can they?

The problem is that they will use it and they will continue to do so, and they will get away with it because they know there will always be someone else to blame, and that they can use any economic problems as an excuse for driving through reforms that will further impoverish the poorest. The fact is that the UK is already lagging considerably behind the EU in growth terms, largely as a result of austerity and Brexit, but because there is no visible 'alternative reality' path against which people can compare the version of reality we are living through, they don't see how things could have been different. It will be the same with Brexit.

...but who'd win a fight between a unicorn and a GNU?

If Corbyn said he would lead a temporary government with Kier Starmer this may be a way forward.

Currently we have 2 options

Do "we" ?

I can't see we have any options. MPs might have options, but that's a different story. The only "option" any of us really has, is how much we choose to suck it up or otherwise.

We hit the iceberg 3 years ago. Just taking a long time before we list too much and fracture and sink.

We do not hit the iceberg until Oct 31. If nobody grabs the wheel between now and then, collision is inevitable.

Dominic Grieve has now come out against Corbyn.

For me the question is, can Corbyn be worse than Johnson?

Wonderful special on Ireland on R4’s World at One. Made clear that Ireland is united on the backstop and with a closing line by one Irish commentator that the problem was not the backstop, but the incompatible aims the British government had set itself, and its failure to be honest about the trade-offs.

Thanks @Eyewhisker . I'll listen on iPlayer.

Meanwhile it seems the Turkish Army Pension fund is looking to buy British Steel ?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49368217

presumably as another incremental step towards EU admission ?

Jeremy Corbyn being elected in a GE is one thing. The electorate must be able to chose who they will. His becoming PM by fiat of Parliament is quite another thing.

There is for sure opposition to his becoming PM from conservatives but his becoming the head of a Government of National Unity?! I can see him being unifying in the sense that his candidacy would attract support from MPs in all 4 nations of the U.K. but almost alll those people who’d vote for him want to stop Brexit. The idea of him being a unifier between remainers and leavers, I really can’t see it.

The idea of him being a unifier between remainers and leavers, I really can’t see it.

Perhaps they mean that we're mostly unified in thinking that he's a courgette.

This is the thing Louise. A GNU to prevent No Deal needs ALL of the Labour Party in Parliament. The only conceivable avenue to prevent a split in the PLP is if Corbyn leads the GNU.

Unfortunately Grieve and co are unwilling to cross the floor which is what is required to defeat Government in a VoNC.

If the LDs want to go back to the political wilderness then they should just keep on doing what they are doing.
I don’t think they’ll find it very easy to gain any support afterwards.
I would be interested in seeing any alternative plans to stop Brexit that aren’t formed just because MPs don’t want to see JC in number 10.
A short term temporary alliance with the condition that it deals exclusively with Brexit doesn’t seem to pose any risks. I think enough conditions can be put in place to exclude a power grab by JC and surely nobody in their right mind can prefer a crash out with Cummings driving Boris.

I see Donald Trump wants to buy Greenland.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49367792

No need to buy the UK, of course - we're giving it away ....

I wonder why Trump is egging us on to destroy our economy and to become desperate to make trade deals. Surely he has our best interests at heart.

Don’t think I agree on that howabout. All, or almost all labour MPs need to vote against thr Johnson government in a VONC for the government to lose.

After that, it seems logical that JC should have the first “attempt” to form a new government, but if he does, I think he is very likely to fail.

For a government to be formed it needs to command the support of the HoC it does not necessarily need all, most, or even a majority of the Labour Party members supporting it. The parliamentary numbers, before a GE won’t change.

This is the thing Louise. A GNU to prevent No Deal needs ALL of the Labour Party in Parliament. The only conceivable avenue to prevent a split in the PLP is if Corbyn leads the GNU.

I agree with Louise here.

1. Even if the Tories lose VONC it's not clear that Labour could form a government.

1. A consensus candidate could get the numbers but they would have to have appeal to anti-no-dealers on both sides of the house.

My opinion is that this GNU stuff is fiddling while Rome burns. Hard to see how you get the numbers. And without the numbers, a VONC leads to an election over the Brexit period - the worst possible outcome.

For me the question is, can Corbyn be worse than Johnson?

Unfortunately I think the answer is that he could be almost as bad.

There have long been suspicions that Milne in particular favours No Deal. All the machinations have been stalling allowing Tories to deliver. They are still at it.

Even if Corbyn comes out explicitly No Deal he still favours some form of Brexit. And he’s still not really interested in what his MPs or party members think other than the Brexiters.

According to the earlier civil service ‘leak’ he’s not up to the job ‘physically or mentally’ and ‘propped up’ by those around him.

Perhaps they mean that we're mostly unified in thinking that he's a courgette.

Ever met a courgette plant? You need a different vegetable. Something slow growing and temperamental.

I wonder why Trump is egging us on to destroy our economy and to become desperate to make trade deals. Surely he has our best interests at heart

Well his actions vis a vis China have really hit a US megacorp - Cisco - very hard.

www.theregister.co.uk/2019/08/15/cisco_q4_2019/

www.theregister.co.uk/2019/08/15/cisco_job_cuts/

Also his will-I/won't I approach to China tariffs can't be doing much good for US business confidence

www.theregister.co.uk/2019/08/13/trump_china_tariffs/

As someone my brother works with commented ... China couldn't pay Trump to do as good a job for them as he is right now .... ?