Westminstenders: Charge!!!!

[RedToothBrush]

Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
“Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!” he said.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

“Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred.

Flashed all their sabres bare,
Flashed as they turned in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wondered.
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right through the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reeled from the sabre stroke
Shattered and sundered.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell.
They that had fought so well
Came through the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!

It looks to me like the beginnings of negotiations, each party setting out their stall. These are not non negotiable red lines so far as I can see. Yes, some of the positions are incompatible, but it's not the worst place to start. At least they are talking. My only worries are a) that it will take too long, and b) there is no option that can command a majority in the HoC.

I agree with this. The Swinson position is more nuanced than people are suggesting (see her letter to Corbyn).

The problem with the argument about "commanding a mandate", and who might be able to do that, is that the answer right now is probably "no one". What does appear to command a mandate is opposition to no deal, both from the people and from parliamentarians. I think the people would be very disappointed if MPs cannot coalesce around a temporary leader capable of (a) winning the confidence of the house and (b) preventing no deal.

My opinion is that it will take several GEs before there is a stable government again. There could be years of this ahead.

I agree with verticality. They’re like children. What happened to wisdom, intellect and dignity as necessary qualities in politicians? (I mean, for one, Gavin Williamson as Education Secretary! By what possible measure has he got what is necessary to run this dept? Look at his background: it’s appallingly lightweight.)

Anyway rant over.
What’s worrying me is that we won’t get near a government of national unity because a VoNC can’t be won. When you look at the intentions of the Independents, I just don’t believe the numbers are there.

So all this debate about who will run it is pointless. Boris and his cronies are probably laughing at this show.

And Change UK's position is not as being reported in hotheaded posts on here and on twitter, either.

Their concern - and tbh it's not an unreasonable one - is that a VONC could lead to no one being able to form a government and hence a GE that would span Brexit date. We do not know if in those circumstances the present government would choose to delay Brexit.

The Change argument is that if parliament cannot come behind a GNU then it is better for the no deal opposition to try to try to seize control of parliamentary business and pass legislation to prevent no deal, rather than allowing parliament to be prorogued for an election.

The Lib Dems were really starting to undo the toxicity around them being involved in the Tory coalition. The issue Jo Swinson has now is that she is being seen to have been content to prop up a Tory government and austerity for five years but not a Corbyn led government for two weeks to stop no deal.

I think the Change UK MPs are more worried about losing their seats if there was an election than stopping no deal.

Well, that's the spin, being amplified on here.

Don't agree with Swinson's initial response. (@simonFRcox on Twitter has a very good thread on this on twitter, his final tweet sums up my thoughts "Like most voters, I’d rather have someone other than Johnson or Corbyn in No 10. But democracy isnt about meeting all my wants. It’s about hard choices between mixed bags"). But don't agree with trashing someone the moment they do something that you don't agree with 100%.

This sort of absolutism is part of the problem and if you don't like it in Brexit supporters - stop behaving like them!

I think the Change UK MPs are more worried about losing their seats if there was an election than stopping no deal.

Really stupid take: they know perfectly well that there is an election coming soon whatever they do, and they have known since they jumped ship that their seats are at risk.

I think this cartoon sums it all up really.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2019/aug/15/steve-bell-on-jo-swinsons-reaction-to-corbyns-call-to-oust-pm-cartoon

My take is not stupid *Mistigri it's just different to yours. There are many views on here which I don't agree with but I would never come on here and say anyone's opinion/take was stupid.

The Change argument is that if parliament cannot come behind a GNU then it is better for the no deal opposition to try to try to seize control of parliamentary business and pass legislation to prevent no deal, rather than allowing parliament to be prorogued for an election

Absolutely! and SNP's Ian Blackford view as well, take no-deal off the table by seizing control of Parliament.
No doubt a VoNC could be won but then what? i've been wrong plenty of times before but would enough Tories support JC? esp as there will be Lab MPs who won't support Corbyn.

Having seen some of the speculations on here I am wondering if the EU might possibly offer a further olive branch on 30 October to say that if the UK can demonstrate within say 9 months that it would actually like to stay in the EU, then most of the terms could be renegotiated without the full formal applicatio to join.
I base this on the financial aspects since all sides have taken a massive financial hit and with the talks of global recession/slowdown and possibility of war in India/Pakistan North/South Korea Iran and the shenanigens in China it might just be possible to save the UK from itself.
Meanwhile the EU is largely waiting for the UK to stop dancing around it's collective handbags, realise is still has to sign up to a WA (probably the one collecting dust in Brussels) before anyone can move forward
The focus on hee is still on the batshit crazy UK, not on what is going on in the rest of the world which is going to make a massive difference to the outcome in say a year's time.
Writing great trade deals is all well and good but if the world markets are on a slide down the deals will not help the UK.

Hahahaha @placemats - love Steve Bell so much!

Hold nose and accept a GNU with Corbyn temporarily at the helm and avoid no deal.

Simple.

Nothing involving Corbyn is ever simple. He’s nearly as divisive a figure as BJ and almost as unlikely to unite different parties.

If the primary aim of Labour top brass was to stop Brexit, surely they’d be happy to unite behind an alternative candidate temporarily. The fact they won’t consider that shows that stopping Brexit is a secondary issue for Labour and their primary goal remains to get Corbyn in as PM - a goal they are just as happy to pursue in a deal or no-deal Brexit basis.

If the primary aim of Labour top brass was to stop Brexit

I meant No Deal Brexit.

GNU will have resonances for IT nerds (like me) - it stands for "Gnu is Not Unix" (don't ask).

Basically it's the framework under which people who develop and maintain free software force it to be offered for free by anyone who distributes it further down the line ...

This license is now used by most of GNU software, as well as a large number of free software programs that are not part of the GNU Project; it is also the most commonly used free software license.[65] It gives all recipients of a program the right to run, copy, modify and distribute it, while forbidding them from imposing further restrictions on any copies they distribute. This idea is often referred to as copyleft

Somehow, I suspect the association would please Corbyn

I thought that about GNU, DGR, but I also thought of the Flanders and Swan song "I'm a gnu."

Meanwhile, not only are there no charges against the seized Iranian tanker, despite US pleas ...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49362182

I wonder how far politics intruded into a decision which is essentially a "fuck you Donald" from a part of the UK that doesn't seem to want to get with the programme ?

Presumably, we'll hear of the UK flagged tanker being cleared to continue it voyage after inspections ....

NHS treatment for EU citizens will remain free in Scotland even if the UK leaves with No Deal.

https://www.facebook.com/569438623080881/posts/2681723161852406/

Or a musical accent?

"I'm sticking with you,
Because I'm made out of gnu."

I feel like there's more time than the panicked posts in various fora suggest. Maybe there's enough time to try first for parliament taking control of the order paper, and if that fails, a VONC with GNU attempt.

As an aside, as I am a bit lost with all the party swapping - I actually don't care who leads a GNU as long as we don't no deal - anyway, I was talking to DH and I said something about food prices going up. He said that was doom-mongering as no one knows what will happen. I pointed out the governments own analysis that they would rise. He repeated that no one knows what would happen! sigh I gave up at that point. He hasn't followed the news, isn't interested in discussing Brexit at all and anything I point out as possibly happening is rubbished as "no one knows what will happen"! He isn't a Brexiteer, He isn't a remainer, he literally just isn't interested! Grr.

Food prices have already risen...

@Tatiana I know! He was just dismissive of the whole entire conversation. Very frustrating!