Westminstenders: Charge!!!!

[RedToothBrush]

Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
“Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!” he said.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

“Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred.

Flashed all their sabres bare,
Flashed as they turned in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wondered.
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right through the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reeled from the sabre stroke
Shattered and sundered.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell.
They that had fought so well
Came through the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!

If the avoidance of no deal is so important to Swinson, then she would work with anyone to avoid it, esp as JC said any interim Govt would be time limited, purely to stop ND and call a GE..... however, she has a point, its almost certain no Tory would work with him.

By dismissing JC's plan out of hand, looks to me as if she is putting her own ambition before that of the countries, very disappointing.

Thanks, red 😂
I'd lost track of who was which flavour of Independent and I was not relishing wading through

That is an unusually large group of Independents, but what a mixture of views & motivations !
They could be key to any VoNC, but so difficult to get the non-NDers on board

Next question is which ones would support No Deal, or abstain

Possibly No deal:

Jared O'Mara - Independant (Labour) resigned
Kelvin Hopkins - Independant (Labour) suspended
Charlie Elphicke - Independant (Conservative) suspended

Possibly abstain:
Frank Field abstain, given his loathing of Corbyn ?
Stephen LLoyd -Independant (LD), since he "promised his constituents" he'd support Leave - but what kind of Leave

Gosh Red, bravo for doing that!

Mind you it might be out of date again by this time tomorrow!

Here's one from across the pond ... who reckons this current regime could bump Her Madge off. ? The ensuing 10-day blackout being the easiest way to sail through no deal (and would let Charles know exactly who is in charge now).

In a world where Jeffrey Epstein isn't cold yet, it's not the most ludicrous idea I've heard.

So a key question would be when the Royal Death is most convenient for Boris. With Farage sliming behind blaming it on Meghan ...

That's next years TV sorted. I'll just spellcheck the scripts, and the Daily Mail can source some agents for me.

Hasn't Jared O'Meara said he's going to resign as an MP as soon as Parliament goes back?

...presuming that he would've voted with Labour, that increases the number of Conservative "rebels" that would be needed.

He was a coward/mercenary for not resigning before the recess so that a by-election could have been organised by now. As it is he gets 2 months extra salary for doing nowt

Personally I can see Swinson’s point on Corbyn. I agree with this:

”There is nothing to suggest Jeremy Corbyn can be trusted on Brexit or that he will campaign to Remain.”...

Forgive me for not believing Jeremy Corbyn’s newly mouthed words on Brexit...

“There are plenty of people in the Labour party that I can work with, that I do work with. But Jeremy Corbyn is a Brexiteer. He cannot be trusted on Brexit. That is abundantly clear.”

She doesn’t want to get railroaded into a coalition than ends in a Brexit, letting down all her Remain supporters. She’s not comfortable with his piss poor attitude to antisemitism either - she doesn’t want to be complicit in that either.

The real issue is Labour’s insistence that Corbyn would lead a coalition. He and the party are still putting personal political goals above the good of the country.

Of the 9 "Other Independents" I think it likely only Nick Boles would vote to block No Deal? In other words, they broadly cancel out Anna and co and the Govt maj on Brexit is not quite as shaky as oft reported.

Corbyn is leader of the Labour party whether people like it or not so imo he does have a 'right' to insist he leads an alternative government. He is offering a way to avoid no deal on the 31st Oct so if others reject this soley because of him then they prefer a permanent no deal to a Corbyn led temporary government.

Basilpots thanks for the info on Lowe, I emailed FT to say well done on their interview and included a link to Gloucestershire Live re the racehorse training (in case they didn't know how limited his interest in agriculture is).

Corbyn has a right to inisist whatever he likes, he still does not command the confidence of a majority of his own MPs, never mind the house.

He would also love to go into a general election as a sitting PM, which is all the more reason not to let him.

Plus his letter to 'All parties' which went to the Conservatives did not go to the Tiggers. Still happy to sit down with Hamas and the IRA but not Chris Leslie.

I think lots of people sat/sit down with Hamas and the IRA. And the ANC...Corbyn just gets vilified by the Daily Mail for doing it. And that gets regurgitated on social media.

I forgot Lady Hermon is an Independant in NI too.

Oops.

...Lots of people including John Major who said it would turn his stomach whilst he was secretly doing it, and good for him that he was.

The point was clear enough. Corbyn turned up for a meeting of all oppostion parties and refused to stay because Chukka Umuna was in the room.

He is not a figure who can bring unity to the nation, and certainly not to the Labour Party.

I think a compromise could bring some kind of unity to the country but so many leavers and remainers seem unwilling to do this. Installing only remainers in a unity goverment certainly wouldn't do this. Corbyn's position would be as a temporary PM, I can live with that if it stops no deal.

The aims of leavers or remainers are diametrically opposed, they can never work together in any Govt of national unity.

If the only way no-deal can be stopped and considering JC is the elected leader of the official opposition, then remainers/no-dealers of all parties should put aside their differences.

Wont happen though and of course plays straight into the ERGs hands.

who reckons this current regime could bump Her Madge off.

She's made of far sterner stuff than any and all of the politicians combined and then some. She's seen so many come and go. I doubt she's ready to pop off just yet.

Corbyn is leader of the Labour party whether people like it or not so imo he does have a 'right' to insist he leads an alternative government. He is offering a way to avoid no deal on the 31st Oct so if others reject this soley because of him then they prefer a permanent no deal to a Corbyn led temporary government.

They simply prefer an alternative form of coalition.

One could equally argue that as Corbyn’s demand is likely to alienate LDs, moderate Tories and Labour critics alike - Corbyn actually prefers permanent no deal to any real attempt to govern with other people.

MPs who are willing to compromise would be my choice in a temporary unity government. I would include Corbyn in this category and also Ken Clarke, Rory Stewart, Nick Bowles, Lisa Nandy, Lucy Powell. Won't happen though.

If the only way no-deal can be stopped and considering JC is the elected leader of the official opposition, then remainers/no-dealers of all parties should put aside their differences.

I don’t disagree in principle, but I fully understand why MPs are baulking at it. And we can’t be sure that is the only way if MPs don’t discuss the alternatives.

Personally I think Corbyn and his cronies should put aside their personal ambitions for power for the good of the country.

A Corbyn led government won’t last long so it doesn’t really solve the problem.

No side should ever refuse to enter talks with pre conditions whether it be with parties seen as terrorists or otherwise.
Failure to engage can only have one logical conclusion, the total elimination of one 'side' or the other. Be it Hamas, the IRA or any others, even if their views are totally repugnant, you have to engage.
It does of course require very skilled, patient, diplimatic and unflappable negotiators, something that the 'new' UK government seems to be losing sight of very rapidly, something that the UK may well learn too late.
Since Boris and his rabble have done very little except act horrendously on the world stage for the best part of 3 years, once the UK is 'out' the gloves will come off. The EU had had one hand tied behind it's back over Brexit as th UK is a member and there is a possibility, although remote, that it could remain. The people of Europe won't forget how much the UK is costing them personally, possibly £1,000 per person as an average. While I am not suggesting EU citizens will take retaliatory action, it may be that the UK would become 'second choice' in otherwise equal negotiations.

Just running through numbers but I think I just wiped my list of numbers (I'm hoping it will auto back up but I have to go out in a sec).

I think with the new PM, there's around 320 Clear Anti No Dealers (inc Tories willing to rebel) under Johnson that I believe CAN be relied on to block no deal. There's another 39 Tories I'm not sure how they'd go. And 4 - 10 Indys/Labour Leave who I think if push came to shove would lean blocking No Deal, but I'm not sure. There might be some Tory Unicorn Deal / Anti No Dealers I'm not counting, but I think they will now fall in line behind Johnson TBH.

If you frame it as a Corbyn Lead Anti-No Deal Pact v Conservative Government it might get even tighter though... Anything thats framed as tribal and with Corbyn has got very close and very much on party lines. I'm not sure if that will change.

Johnson as leader does really change the dynamics.

Will post it up shortly (if my back up works...)

The thing is, JS is very likely correct that JC’s plan won’t work as he’s such a divisive figure in Parliament. Given there are a number of independents and Labour MPs who wouldn’t vote down the Government, around a dozen or more Tories would be needed to provide enough support for a temporary Corbyn Government, which is unlikely imo.

However, it is surely far better for her to say she wouldn’t rule out supporting a JC Government if that was the only possible way of stopping no-deal, but that she believed there were better ways of achieving it....

If enough Tories/independents can hold their noses to support Corbyn, then it would be suicidal of the LDs for them not to do so as well.... Otherwise they will be the ones blamed for no-deal and they’ll be finished.

If there aren’t enough, the LDs lose nothing and are seen as statesmanlike, and more pressure can then brought to bear on Labour to support a proper ‘unity’ candidate. If Labour Leadership can’t support that, they will be blamed for no deal.

Hoping and praying that the LDs pivot here to avoid being shooting themselves in both feet.... the politics here isn’t exactly hard!

However, it is surely far better for her to say she wouldn’t rule out supporting a JC Government if that was the only possible way of stopping no-deal, but that she believed there were better ways of achieving it....

I completely with your points Oakenbeech including this. This would be the optimal line.

She's made of far sterner stuff than any and all of the politicians combined and then some. She's seen so many come and go. I doubt she's ready to pop off just yet.

I was being serious. We British have executed one monarch, and euthanised another (quiet openly). I really don't see a tragic "accident" is beyond the capabilities of the current crop of people in power, one of whom was quite happy to suggest genocide in an interview not even 6 months ago - and is now in place s Home fucking Secretary.

The death of the Queen would be a deus ex machina for Brexit, shutting out any hint of resistance, and leaving us to awake to a new King outside the EU.

Hand up who doesn't believe Boris and co are capable of that ? And if so, what it is in their fine, moral and upstanding past that leads them to the conclusion that having lied, cheated, bullied, and looked on as the blackshirts start revving up, they'd somehow have any qualms about cold blooded murder ?

They will probably spin it as being in her best interests.....save her the pain of watching the country she loves dis-intergrate