Westminstenders: Charge!!!!

[RedToothBrush]

Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
“Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!” he said.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

“Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred.

Flashed all their sabres bare,
Flashed as they turned in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wondered.
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right through the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reeled from the sabre stroke
Shattered and sundered.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell.
They that had fought so well
Came through the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!

Ironically, this is possibly the worst possible outcome for Johnson. He needs to go to the country before the adverse effects of a no-deal become apparent, and losing a vote of no confidence is the best chance he has of doing this.

Indeed.... if no deal can’t be stopped by Parliament (and I don’t think it can - too many Labour MPs and Labour independents won’t get on board) and if a temporary “national unity” can’t be formed as Corbyn won’t countenance one that doesn’t have him as PM) then voting down the Government in September is pointless if it means a General Election in early November....

I think we probably have to accept that a no-deal Brexit can’t be stopped now and it’s better to have a GE once we see the impact of a no-deal in early 2020...... If it turns out to be as bad as many predict, then BJ will very lose an election in 2020 (can’t see him surviving beyond that with such a small working majority). If not, and the UK magically comes through relatively unscathed, then BJ can reap the electoral rewards.

I think I've given up too actually. With the saddest heart, I'm accepting that we will be out, and now I need to try and work out ways to try and mitigate the damage for my family, short and long term.

All through, I've thought that no one could be stupid enough to do this to the country, but it seems they can and they will.

”I have to admit it. It's over. I don't want to be part of it all"

Depressing as this may be, this MP is just being realistic. If the numbers aren’t there in the HoC (and there needs to be numbers for a proper Plan B, not just vote to stop a no-deal but kick things back into the long grass as there’s no agreement on what to do next) and a GE can’t be held this side of November, then defeat it is....

Bringing down the Government in a fit of pique in a September VONC will likely simply be counter-productive and gives us the greatest likelihood of a majority BJ-led Government for the next five years!

Cummings arguably made a tactical error in crowing that the PM wouldn’t resign after a successful VONC, and that a no-deal Brexit couldn’t be stopped by simply setting the election until very early November.... If he had kept quiet, the chances of a successful VONC would be higher, as it would have still appeared to a viable - perhaps the only viable - means to stop no-deal.... only once the VONC had carried could he have dropped the bombshell and watch the Tory rebels shrivel in despair at being bested by his Machiavellian manoeuvres, and in so doing given BJ the best possible chance of winning a GE....

.... but then again, perhaps Cummings doesn’t give a crap about BJ. Perhaps he doesn’t want BJ to win a November GE. and wants things to unravel (whilst he’s off having his postponed operation), allowing the Brexit Party to revive as they tear into the Tories for messing up Brexit by not being ultra tough with Brussels in the months that follow. Then he’ll be able to rejoin the fray, claiming his true Brexit is squandered by a bunch of incompetent Tories... forging his own political movement as he does so.

Unless MPs opposed to No Deal are very naive and don't get out much, they would have expected that a BJ-led hard Brexiter govt won't play by the rules

e.g. They only needed to read Westministenders !

They shouldn't have needed Cummings to state openly what any reasonably sober politician should have suspected

Several Tory Brexiters e.g. Raab were plainly saying during the leadership campaign that they would force through No Deal, by whatever means necessary

@cherin my thought was that skilled jobs which are currently paid more than £36k might start to drift down to that as a floor

LouiseCollins
"One Country Two Systems" was supposed to last from 1997 - 2047, the idea that this was credible is laughable and the more fool the UK government for falling for it back then.
As early as the 1982 visit of Margaret Thatcher to HK to kick off the long talks over the fate of HK, the British government was told very bluntly by Deng Xiaoping that the PRC could walk into HK that same day and establish any kind of regime it wanted to there, with Thatcher acknowledging that there was nothing the British government could do to stop that.

Everyone knew this was the bottom line wrt the Sino-British HK negotiations. Everyone knew that the aim of negotiations was therefore to provide the British with wording that would make the questions hanging over HK of no further interest to the British public. The Chinese did successive British administrations a favour.

It's very much the British Empire way to exit stage left accompanied by the sound of empty words.
cf:
The partition of Ireland.
The establishment of Israel: promises, left, right and centre...
The partition of India/Pakistan.
Etc.

All through the 20th century, British governments have made pledges of convenience to interested parties to various conflicts, then when push came to shove, they have found a catchy slogan that worked in the press and in Parliament (preferably one based on the mantra 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions') then quickly pulled down the flags and skedaddled on the next boat; never mind the hostages to fortune left in the wake of Empire.

Nobody is going to stand up for the HK protestors.

Math I don’t disagree with you in relation to the U.K. government but I do disagree with you in relation to the Chinese government. It suited, and still suits them, to have the agreement in place that presents Hong Kong to the world as a different system, with the basic law etc. under the same flag because it protected its economic status, and, in the past, it presented a model that might have served as some sort of solution to the Taiwan situation. Xi’s hardline government has of course made the latter irrelevant but they were /are not ready to sacrifice the golden goose of Hong Kong’s attractiveness as a place to do business. The strategy was to build up the wider Pearl River delta, and gradually tie Hong Kong in via closer connections to the wider region via economic and population change (one of the underlying causes of the protest is that Hong King Chinese have felt that threat underlying the political situation) to the point where two systems was less and less relevant and political freedoms could be eroded. That is why the Chinese government are furious with Lam, she didn’t need to push it with the extradition law, that was to pander to them but she misread the Hong Kong people. They would have been content to sit back and let change take its course. Now they are in a position where they cannot tackle the political issue without facing an economic one and that is where the western governments could have used leverage if they did not have leaders incapable of effective diplomacy.

They shouldn't have needed Cummings to state openly what any reasonably sober politician should have suspected

You’re right, but it did genuinely seem to have surprised politicians and commentators.

Why, at age 70, wouldn't you retire to your allotment and just enjoy the rest of your life? The retired people who have - mainly pristine - allotments on my site (plus decent pensions!) seem to have lovely lives. Many of them are on a number of committees to fill time as well.

I can't wait to be able to find more time for my plot. It baffles me what motivates Corbyn to carry on, given that he's clearly not right for the job of opposition leader.

What these MPs are saying now that him as PM is worse than no deal is also surely a bit bonkers though? I really can't see how Corbyn could be worse than total economic suicide (even though I think he's shit at his job!).

Our government has failed us and so have our MPs collectively. History won't be kind to any of them, I wouldn't think.

What these MPs are saying now that him as PM is worse than no deal is also surely a bit bonkers though? I really can't see how Corbyn could be worse than total economic suicide (even though I think he's shit at his job!).

That's just hysterical nonsense tbh.

A Corbyn-led caretaker government would have very little room for manoeuvre because of the parliamentary arithmetic. It would be a short-lived and ineffectual government which would have to go to the people pretty quickly.

Don't get me wrong - if I were going to choose a GNU I wouldn't have Corbyn anywhere near it, because he's useless. But given a choice between a Corbyn-led minority government and no deal, it's pretty clear what would be more damaging. No deal is for life - the consequences will not be undoable in my lifetime. A Corbyn government would most likely be for weeks.

Sorry Fluffy that wasn't clear - what MPs are saying is hysterical nonsense (I agree with you).

It's party before country once again.

Which is also why it is ridiculous of the Lib Dems to refuse to work with Corbyn, they would prefer no deal.

Yes, it's an error by the LDs IMO. Though I also think that if push came to shove and if the alternative were falling off the cliff, they would go for Corbyn over no deal.

I hope so Mistigri.

Looks like Hammond has surfaced again.

Saying Bozo’s demands over the backstop “wreck” any chance of a new deal / change of the current deal with the EU.

Mistigri, I read it as you intended!

They've ALL failed us. Collectively they should all hang their heads in shame.

One of the Tories (can't remember who) was calling for the residents of Hong Kong to be give British passports. For one thing that ship sailed just over 20 years ago, but more importantly our rules for giving citizens of the Empire a British Citizenship which gave them the right to abode here also change, IIRC. This was done in part to stop a flood of people coming from Hong Kong.

As I recall, the people of Macau were given full Portuguese citizenship just before the handover of that enclave and the people of Hong Kong deliberately weren't given UK citizenship. Pretty pathetic to wave it about now.

Agree they have all failed us. Now is the time for clarity and co-operation from the Remain side and all we are seeing is more division and the lack of a coherent plan. Been asking for years what exactly a People's Vote would entail and there is still no answer. I have given up hope that a no deal can be prevented.

This morning - Bercow’s statement in Edinburgh, the Hammond letter, with many signatories, Tom Watson in talks with LDs, demands of Corbyn expected at Lab conference, there is push back, but against pretty strong Brexit winds.
Also, I am getting many, many FB posts from a group called Sussex for Europe, well-argued, a properly developed counter to all the DM & similar hogwash.
BTW, did anyone pick up the DM story on the ComRes survey ( funded by Torygraph, natch)? Completely misinterpreted the results, which were actually 44% prorogue Parliament, yes, 38%No to prorogue, and 18% don’t know. Still worrying, but no where near the mandate it was being touted as.

The other thing that you notice if you look at the data tables of the ComRes survey is how leading the questions were - both in their substance and the order in which they were asked.

Almost as if they were trying to influence the answers in a particular direction......

Even Tom Newton-Dunn was commenting last night on Press Preview last night on Sky that it wasn't just the way that they presented the results - that the way that they'd asked the leading questions was highly suspect.

A Corbyn government would most likely be for weeks.

Have you seen how they took over the Labour party? They would go full totalitarian and do the same to the UK government, you would never get rid of him like they got rid of May, he will cling on like a parasite.

Almost as if they were trying to influence the answers in a particular direction

You big cynic pretty

I heard IDS on radio 4 after Hammond this morning.

He seemed to be blaming Hammond for not preparing properly for a no deal. Therefore the U.K. couldn’t force the EU to come up with a decent deal.
I thought the poker game analogy was just that an analogy. But they really do think they can bluff the EU into removing all of its read lines. Fucking idiots.

Fucking idiots.

One lot gambling with no deal and one lot gambling with amendments to revoke A50, so we ended up with the WA not getting passed and now in this on going uncertainty.