Please can someone tell me the upsides of Brexit

[CleopatrasMum]

Apparently Dominic Raab has said there are many upsides of Brexit. The article in the Guardian that I read this in gave no details of what Raab (presumably) went on to say those upsides were.

Please can someone explain them to me?

Link to article here for what it's worth:

Raab says Brexit will bring 'huge series of upsides' for UK trade

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/06/raab-says-brexit-will-bring-huge-series-of-upsides-for-uk-trade?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Difficulty is that Scotland will object. Remember that there was a motion put forward that Scotland could be exempted, but voted down big time by MPs.

Scotland wouldn't object if we were given Indy 2. It would strengthen our case for it though, which is what Westminster will never tolerate.

The GFA is not a UK/EU agreement. It is a standalone agreement between Ireland and the UK

Made when both ROI and UK were in the same union called EU. No longer the case.

EU rules require border control. WTO is less clear. Installation of a border between ROI and NI by EU is an EU rule as opposed to a WTO rule.

Made when both ROI and UK were in the same union called EU. No longer the case.

Because the UK decided to hold a referendum. Ergo the UK government and leave voters are directly responsible for not adhering to the GFA.

Scotland wouldn't object if we were given Indy 2. It would strengthen our case for it though, which is what Westminster will never tolerate

Scotland are entitled to another referendum on the basis of significant change since the 2014 referendum. Some might argue that until UK leaves the EU there has not been a significant change. However, Johnson’s statement UK is out of EU deal or no deal on 31 Oct 2019 would be good enough for me for Scotland to have another referendum

@NosyBe2006 - I would go for option 2. Difficulty is that Scotland will object. Remember that there was a motion put forward that Scotland could be exempted, but voted down big time by MPs.

It doesn't matter what option you would go for. The UK currently has a government full of fuckwits who know that these are the only options that comply with the GFA but are too arrogant and belligerent to choose one.

Scotland is also irrelevant from an EU perspective (although I would love to see you get independence and join us in the EU). It is an internal UK matter that the EU has no jurisdiction over.

@NosyBe2006 - Made when both ROI and UK were in the same union called EU. No longer the case.

Another completely irrelevant point. My hair was blond when the GFA was signed. That is no longer the case. It doesn't make the GFA any less valid today than it was when it was signed.

Scotland are entitled to another referendum on the basis of significant change since the 2014 referendum

Aye I know that. I was referring to your statement that Scotland would object to NI being a special economic zone. I don't think that we would IF we had Indy 2.

Couldn't give a fuck what Johnson says, he's a disgrace.

whyamidoingthis agreed especially about the arrogance and belligerence!

It doesn't make the GFA any less valid today than it was when it was signed

Problem arises as a contract can only exist between two parties.

GFA parties are UK and ROI, but EU is not a party to GFA. At present both UK and ROI are member of EU so there are no borders required between ROI and NI (UK)

However, as a member of EU the ROI has to follow EU border rules when UK leaves EU. UK, under WTO rules, would not be obliged to have border control and could allow goods to cross from ROI to NI without restrictions. However, that would also allow imports from other WTO members to flow into UK unrestricted. Could end up with all sorts of potentially dangerous goods and food products that people may be tempted to buy if considerably cheaper than local or EU products?

So how to fix the problem if all posters agree that EU requirements and GFA are not aligned? The NI only backstop seems to be the only way. That’s okay with me, but DUP and some Westminster MPs seem to think differently.

@NosyBe2006 - So how to fix the problem if all posters agree that EU requirements and GFA are not aligned?

EU and GFA requirements can be aligned. The UK decided on a brexit that ensures they are not, unless a backstop is included.

Other than that, yes you are correct that a NI backstop or special economic zone or equivalent is the solution to the current impasse.

a NI backstop or special economic zone or equivalent is the solution to the current impasse

So who is preventing it from happening and why?

@NosyBe2006 - So who is preventing it from happening and why?

The UK government because they are a bunch of arrogant, belligerent fuckwits who believe the EU, and in particular, Ireland, should just fall in line and give them what they want.

The backstop agreement is a good and workable agreement that all member states (and all member states in the EU have to agree the terms and conditions to the WA) would happily vote for.

There is the dogged thorn in the Government's side called the DUP. In a supposed democracy, 10 MPs hold sway. It's a ridiculous state of affairs and I believe parliamentarians are rightly ashamed of it, apart from those in the ERG.

"So who is preventing it from happening and why"
If you are a No Dealer - YOU are!

Lobby your MP. Write to the PM. Tell them this is a version of Leave you can live with. And tell all your Leaver friends to do the same.

Thanks for the prompt Bell

I'm going to write to my MP who is an ERG member. I shall report back.

Not often remembered nor reported here is that very shortly before the 2016 Ref the EU were questioning and looking to abolish the pre-EU agreements between RoI/UK as they favoured these countries' citizens over EU nationals. So there is an existing 'framework' to move forward from, that pre-exists the EU.

GFA didn't come about because of some 'heads' in the EU, but more so because a lot of 'heads' in the USA recognized that supporting/funding 'terrorism' wasn't the way forward, anymore.

To hold the GFA as some sort of Brexit 'hostage' is just a way of looking to make an orderly Brexit difficult and really gives no respect nor credence to the people that live on the Island of Ireland.

There are peaceful resolutions but these don't appear to be paramount and I really don't want to add any more unless someone else here can be bothered to check what I said in my first sentence and either state it's correct or refute it.

Er...nope sorry can't think of any upsides. Dominic Raab is a twat who makes it up as he goes along.

The sound of silence......no regular MN Brexit is a shitshow posters care to research my first sentence? Maybe you did, found it correct, and have nothing to say about it?

As you were...boing goes the bell...in the echo chamber.

@HateIsNotGood - Not often remembered nor reported here is that very shortly before the 2016 Ref the EU were questioning and looking to abolish the pre-EU agreements between RoI/UK as they favoured these countries' citizens over EU nationals. So there is an existing 'framework' to move forward from, that pre-exists the EU.

This is what the border looked like pre GFA, when the common travel are was also in effect. The common travel area is not a solution.

@HateIsNotGood - maybe you would like to explain how you think the common travel area will solve the border issue when it was not sufficient prior to the GFA?

*travel area, not travel are

@HateIsNotGood - The sound of silence

Nothing to say on the common travel area?

Thanks all for replying, and the pix. I'm not suggesting the CTA is the solution but that it is an example that GFA can be re-written or a new Agreement can be formed and that, as with GFA, the EU doesn't need to be, nor was, the leading force.

The EU has it's 'unifying' positives, etc but if it can't be sophisticated enough to know it should be 'aside' in this instance then any respect I have for it is very much lessened.

If I don't reply, i'm eating, then sleeping...being a real live, working mum, whatever, etc. Back for alooksee tomorrow.

@HateIsNotGood - I'm not suggesting the CTA is the solution but that it is an example that GFA can be re-written or a new Agreement can be formed and that, as with GFA, the EU doesn't need to be, nor was, the leading force.

Then what exactly is your point re the CTA? You don't seem to understand what it is. It has no relevance to the current impasse. Ireland is quite happy with the GFA as it stands. We do not want to re-write an agreement that has brought peace to NI and has resulted in very successful cross-border, all-Ireland initiatives.

The suggestion that we should rewrite the GFA simply because the UK now find it inconvenient simply reinforces the reasons we needed the GFA in the first place. The expectation that the Irish should fall into line and do whatever the UK wants is what led to the troubles in the first place.

The EU involvement in the GFA is simply a supporting role. They are standing behind a member who is insisting that another country complies with an international peace treaty that both countries signed.

If I don't reply, i'm eating, then sleeping...being a real live, working mum, whatever, etc. Back for alooksee tomorrow.

As are the rest of us. Didn't stop you from making your little PA comment about the sound of silence.

I'm not suggesting the CTA is the solution but that it is an example that GFA can be re-written

This makes literally no sense. As others have pointed out the CTA predates the GFA, and it is in an6 case irrelevant for Brexit purposes as the CTA is about movement of people whereas the Brexit border issues are about trade.

I honestly don't know how anyone has the patience to keep debating basic facts with people who have spent the last three years learning nothing.