Please can someone tell me the upsides of Brexit

[CleopatrasMum]

Apparently Dominic Raab has said there are many upsides of Brexit. The article in the Guardian that I read this in gave no details of what Raab (presumably) went on to say those upsides were.

Please can someone explain them to me?

Link to article here for what it's worth:

Raab says Brexit will bring 'huge series of upsides' for UK trade

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/06/raab-says-brexit-will-bring-huge-series-of-upsides-for-uk-trade?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

@NosyBe2006 - Proving the point that T May was not the sole representative of the UK.

Your posts are getting more ridiculous. The UK internal processes and procedures are irrelevant to the agreement made between the UK and the EU. The WA was agreed in good faith by the EU. It was up to the UK to also act in good faith by ensuring their proposed backstop was implementable.

How does EU placing border control between ROI and NI represent tampering by UK?

The UK has a responsibility under the GFA to ensure they do not change the environment to one that does not ensure the GFA is upheld. Who puts up the border controls is irrelevant. It is the UK who is changing the rules, resulting in the requirement for border controls.

No it is not. Courts ruled that Brexit had to go through Parliament before Article 50 was triggered

It's irrelevant to current negotiations.

It's not irrelevant when it's used to deny your ridiculous, false and continued insistence that it was the EU who demanded a border.

Which is the context I used it in. Keep up.

Was it DUP or was it Westminster

If you trouble yourself to read what has been happening over the past 3 years, you might recall that May called an election in 2017, hoping to give herself a mandate for a hard Brexit and sticking it to Labour. She failed to retain her majority and had to stitch up a deal with the DUP. So it was May trying to keep the DUP sweet. The DUP remember, who like to be more British than the rest of us, except when it doesn't suit when they like to be different.

The DUP remember, who like to be more British than the rest of us, except when it doesn't suit when they like to be different.

Sounds a bit like the no dealers' attitude to the GFA.

@NosyBe2006
You must be taking the piss, are people really this thick? Ffs it's no wonder the country is up shit creek. Do you even know what the EU is? Or the difference between parliament and the government?

It was up to the UK to also act in good faith by ensuring their proposed backstop was implementable

Backstop is not implementable as demonstrated by fact that T May attempted to hide the legal advice about WA. The advice was clear. EU could lock UK into customs union and single market forever.

So far I have not heard an answer to the question;

why did T May want to keep secret the fact that wording of WA could result in UK being locked into EU forever?

Ok, so having read the full thread, why, in your favourite deities name are we doing this?

So we can bring back The Black & White Minstrel Show (that the EU banned) according to some.

The UK has a responsibility under the GFA to ensure they do not change the environment to one that does not ensure the GFA is upheld

So why was Article 50 invoked?

It is the UK who is changing the rules, resulting in the requirement for border controls

Border control between EU and non EU countries is an EU rule. If UK leaves EU without a deal then all legal agreements between UK and EU cease to exist. In more simple terms club rules apply when you are a member of the club, but cease to prevail when you leave the club.

Backstop is not implementable as demonstrated by fact that T May attempted to hide the legal advice about WA. The advice was clear. EU could lock UK into customs union and single market forever.

The advice was clear. It's impossible to have Brexit without compromising the GFA. Either the UK must remain in the single market/customs union indefinitely, or it doesn't have the ability to close the borders (a key leave campaign point).

So the Brexit that was promised, could never have happened. Which the government knew.

NosyBe2006

As above, do you even know what the EU is? Genuine question. Plenty of people I know really don't have a clue. Staying in the customs union and single market does not mean we would be in the EU, surely you understand this? Many, many Leave voters really don't. If the whole of the UK and NI left the EU but negotiated to stay in the customs union and single market, we would have delivered 100% on the referendum, no ifs, no buts, it would be a matter of fact that we would have left.

Border control between EU and non EU countries is an EU rule. If UK leaves EU without a deal then all legal agreements between UK and EU cease to exist. In more simple terms club rules apply when you are a member of the club, but cease to prevail when you leave the club.

The UK government doesn't have the right to compromise the GFA because they shifted the goal posts. Why you can't understand that is beyond me.

The UK government can't just start a war in Ireland because they lied about the realities of a winning Leave vote.

They can't just rip up an international peace treaty because it doesn't suit them.

Why do you think English and Welsh votes count for more than Irish/Northern Irish ones?

Because they voted (overwhelmingly) for the GFA and implemented it.

What right does Westminster have to compromise that?

So the Brexit that was promised
Brexit promised all thinks to all people. Everybody could have their own personal fantasy Brexit. As a campaign strategy by Leave this was genius.

So the Brexit that was promised, could never have happened

Hence Johnson has said remove the backstop or no deal. This then cancels all legal agreements with EU and UK then reverts to WTO.

Upside of Brexit?

Scottish independence.

Of course countries can rip up international treaties they have signed if they want to. That’s sovereignty.

They just have to deal with the consequences.

Rip up the GFA then no trade deal with the US because congress blocks it. No trade deal with EU because Ireland is a member. The mini deals that keep planes flying and a certain about of trade allow only the bare minimum that suits the EU.

The UK government doesn't have the right to compromise the GFA because they shifted the goal posts

Nothing in GFA that prevents UK from leaving the EU. GFA predicated on basis that UK and ROI would always be in the EU.

Don’t tell me that 17.4 million votes have to be ignored because of the threat of violence. It’s the policy of most governments not to give in to extortion and terrorists.

NosyBe2006 Jesus wept.

You're everything that is wrong with this shitshow of a union.

People will die because the UK government and fucking leave voting eejits decided a vanity project was more important than peace.

You cannot possibly be as obtuse as you are pretending to be.

Inniu you left out bloodshed, bombs and death.

Nothing in GFA that prevents UK from leaving the EU. GFA predicated on basis that UK and ROI would always be in the EU.

You can't even go 2 sentences without contradicting yourself.

Who are terrorists? The republicans? Why? Because Westminster said so?

To many the British army were the terrorists, it all depends where your loyalties lie doesn't it?

The point is, the UK knew that closed borders and no customs union was completely impossible and they lied.

@NosyBe2006

Border control between EU and non EU countries is an EU rule. If UK leaves EU without a deal then all legal agreements between UK and EU cease to exist.

This statement appears to be based on the premise that the border between NI and Ireland can only be viewed from a UK perspective, so that once the UK is no longer in the EU, EU rules magically won't apply to the border.
However, viewed from Ireland, that vision is clearly fallacious.
Unsurprising, to those who have grown used to the standpoint from which many English people view rUK, but fallacious nonetheless.

(PS: Sockpuppet names:
DiegoGarcia2002
Mahé1995
DarEsSalaam2012
Tana2000
Saint-Denis1995
Mohéli 2014.
Help yourself.)

@NosyBe2006 - So far I have not heard an answer to the question; why did T May want to keep secret the fact that wording of WA could result in UK being locked into EU forever?

No idea and I don't give a crap. That's an internal UK problem and nothing to do with me (I'm Irish).

Backstop is not implementable as demonstrated by fact that T May attempted to hide the legal advice about WA.

The backstop is perfectly implementable. The UK parliament just refuses to implement it.

So why was Article 50 invoked?

Presumably to start the process. Brexit is not incompatible with the GFA. It was the red lines introduced by Theresa May that caused the problem. The only way brexit could be delivered in a way that included her red lines was to include a NI only,or a UK wide, backstop.

If UK leaves EU without a deal then all legal agreements between UK and EU cease to exist.

The GFA is not a UK/EU agreement. It is a standalone agreement between Ireland and the UK.

Hence Johnson has said remove the backstop or no deal. This then cancels all legal agreements with EU and UK then reverts to WTO.

It doesn't cancel the UK's responsibilities under the GFA.

Rip up the GFA then no trade deal with the US because congress blocks it. No trade deal with EU because Ireland is a member

UK already trades with USA? UK and USA have many bilateral agreements.

UK can trade with EU on WTO. Considering EU sells more to UK than UK buys from EU. I can’t see EU refusing to continue trade with UK when EU has a £64 Billion trade surplus with the UK

@NosyBe2006 - Don’t tell me that 17.4 million votes have to be ignored because of the threat of violence.

The threat of violence is completely irrelevant. Are you really saying that 17.4 million people are happy for their country to rip up an international peace treaty? I would hope that the majority of the population of the UK would have more integrity than that.

I repeat: Brexit and the GFA are not incompatible. However, it can only be delivered on in a compatible manner in one of 3 ways:

1). Remove the UK red lines and negotiate a deal that involves staying in the CU/SM
2). NI only backstop/special economic area.
3). UK wide backstop.

@NosyBe2006 - Considering EU sells more to UK than UK buys from EU

As yes, the old "They need us more than we need them" argument. You don't hear that so much anymore.

Sockpuppet names:

I knew it!

1). Remove the UK red lines and negotiate a deal that involves staying in the CU/SM
2). NI only backstop/special economic area.
3). UK wide backstop

I would go for option 2. Difficulty is that Scotland will object. Remember that there was a motion put forward that Scotland could be exempted, but voted down big time by MPs.