“Project Fear” ... I’m dumbfound at the ignorance.

[Septemberissue]

I am continually astounded by this government and the Brexiteers who are continually rubbishing claims and predictions by Industry leaders, experts, scientists, doctors and economists and claiming that it is part of the huge conspiracy; “project fear” should it not fit with their prosperous Eden that is post brexit Britain.

For example, Mark Carney said that the economy almost certainly would suffer as a result of no deal. But no no, he knows nothing. It’s project fear.

Dusty old Thatcherite tories (“Lord” Lamont) for example, on Newsnight last night said that Food supplies & medication would not be interrupted, despite industry leaders and experts saying it will. The Governments very own dry run of bringing the isotopes required for medical purposes such as xrays, scans, radio therapy etc. actually demonstrated that there would be delays, but again, these people are spouting lies & it’s just “project fear”. But of course, Lamont - who is arguably theee worst chancellor in British history - the man responsible for a run on the pound, is better placed to comment on this than the experts.

Another dusty old man of Tory grandeur Peter Lilley on PM tonight again dismissing claims by experts. It’s astounding.

Anyone who dares to call Brexit for what it is and gives their otherwise trusted opinion is a “remoaner” and their findings are just part of the so called project fear.

It seems that this faction want to blame anyone but themselves for this mess. It’s project fear. It’s the EU’s fault. They won’t negotiate. Our hands are clean. ... what extraordinary times we live in.

It’s staggering how this narrative has been allowed to develop. People with actual on the ground/expert knowledge point out all the serious problems inherent in trying to suddenly tear apart a legal, economic and political framework that has been developed and refined over 40 years to ensure freedom of movement of goods and services, and they are dismissed as if the whole thing is just about partisan politics. No nuance is permitted.

No acceptance for example that you might dislike elements of the EU (just as you might dislike elements of our own political structure) and yet still recognise that taking an axe to the whole thing will result in a complete clusterfuck for this country. Not only that, they seem to think that leaving with no deal is an end to the Brexit saga, that it allows us to “get on with it”. Except it doesn’t. Like every country we will need deals in place, deals which take years of negotiation. Except in this case having crashed out of the EU we’ll be a casualty in the water surrounded by sharks scenting weakness. Look how the US is circling, whispering sweet promises whilst thinking of all the concessions they’ll now be able to extract from a country desperate to keep its head above water. It’s like people just don’t understand how negotiations work. We will be by far the weaker party and ripe for being utterly shafted - like a Black Friday sale for the world in which UK is up for grabs.

@PortLouis1996 - nice to have you on the thread! A pro-Brexiteer that is arguing points, reading other views etc. I agree a decrease in sterling isn't the worst thing that can happen for the reasons you mention. However if we have hyper inflation too, that pound will devalue even quicker and the people like Rees Mogg who has his money overseas, will be fine while the rest of us won't. But overall I agree this isn't the worst thing to happen after a hard Brexit and we can all holiday here.

Carney has an Irish Passport by the way
Why is this surprising and why does it matter? He is Canadian and many Canadians have Irish roots. Claiming his passport makes living here much easier (or did!).

Pure hysteria, no helped by threads like this. Brexit is like the millennium bug. Once 1 Nov ticks round you'll wonder what the fuss was about.

One of my relatives worked as a systems analyst at a bank. All IT staff were discouraged from taking annual leave (not sure if it was actually banned) and overtime was paid at varying rates up to 8X normal rate.

Yes things looked 'smooth' from the outside but a lot of work went into it being that way.

There doesn't seem to be any prep taking place for Brexit.

The Bank of England reports are worth reading - turgid but interesting. They (100's of knowledgable experts, not just one man) review information and war game what might need to be done to protect currency/economy. The worst predications become headline news - and encourage many to write off the whole report (as I said written by 100's of experts) on the basis of Project Fear with Mark Carney as Establishment Remainer working to thwart the 52%.

Couldn't care less what passport MarkCarney has but I assume the mention of an Irish passport was meant to infer he was working on behalf of the interests of ROI/EU.

Mervyn King no longer has access to all the background information and work he had when he was at the BoE - this diminishes the importance of his views in my mind. From memory his period at the BoE wasn't exactly an unqualified success either (albeit challenging circumstances).

Always impressed that anyone can be bothered to engage with posters who write the "get over it" drivel.

Janista lives in Australia. Worth repeating regularly because they like to pop on and pretend they have a relevant opinion.

Why is this surprising and why does it matter

Could be irrelevant, but where does Carney's allegiance lie? With UK as a born and bred citizen of UK like his predecessor, Mervyn King, or with that of Canada and possibly Ireland if he has Irish passport.

Some rattle on about the Pelosi woman in USA congress that she stated she will overrule Trump making a deal with UK if GFA is threatened. She is of Italian descent. Again could be coincidence, but where does her allegiance lie? With Ireland or with Italy? Is she afraid that no deal will affect EU and Italy or more bothered about Ireland?

How would those who voted leave be identified?

You can’t, hence why I said it doesn’t work like that! Just my venomous streak would love it if there was some way only the leave voters would lose jobs/not be able to access food and medicines but sadly we’re all fucked. Thank god they’re taking responsibility for it though eh! Oh wait they’re not, it’s remainers and the EU’s fault!

Mervyn King no longer has access to all the background information and work he had when he was at the BoE - this diminishes the importance of his views in my mind

King joined the bank in 1991, became Governor in 2003 and remained in that position till 2013. So 22 years experience of UK Banking while UK was in the EU compared to Carney's 3 years up until the referendum result.

I would favour King's opinion more.

Iwhere does Carney's allegiance lie? With UK as a born and bred citizen of UK like his predecessor, Mervyn King, or with that of Canada and possibly Ireland if he has Irish passport.*

So one needs to be a “born and bred citizen of the U.K.” for one’s views to have any validity? Typical leaver insular, narrow minded and borderline racist attitude.

Maybe Carney’s “allegiances” are based on carrying out his role to the best of his skills and ability and not based on accidents of birth and choices made about citizenship.

Incidentally he also now has British Citizenship as well.

@ the Big ball of Oil, When people stop calling Leavers "Gobshites" I might think you are a reasonable intelligent person with a valid opinion. Of course that would mean respecting other opinions. You have your opinion, thank you for sharing. Now have the courtesy to allow others the same. I promise I will not insult you. As for what will happen? Well we will see, talk again on here in 2 years time when there are some facts

I would favour King's opinion more.

Because he’s a “born and bred citizen of the U.K.”?

It’s what the majority voted for & democracy must be upheld

If the result had been remain, and then everyone had said "right we won, we're now going to join the euro and Schengen", leavers would have been up in arms. It wouldnt' have happened, we would have kept the status quo (along with David Cameron's concessions). Yet remain voters are meant to swallow a no deal hardcore Brexit in the name of "democracy".

If you were a true democratic you would go for something that resembled the status quo as far as possible eg EFTA/EEA/CU membership.

And Scotland, NI and Gibraltar did not vote in favour, yet their votes are being ignored, which is not very democratic. Neither is it very democratic to stop British citizens in the EU from voting, but allow people in Australia with no intention of ever returning to the UK to vote. And EU citizens living in the UK should have been able to vote too as it affects them directly.

Janista previously I was irritated by your relentless repetition of insults and soundbites.

Now I find it funny, like a drunken auld auntie at a party that dozes off and randomly wakes up shouting nonsensical abuse at people before passing out again.

@InTheHeatofLisbon I think you you forgot to include the word "batshit".

The simple reality is that there will be consequences - there will be delays, the economy will dip, there will be issues for some businesses - there may even be some who lose jobs / whose businesses fail...

the issue is that there are those who magnify this and claim doom and gloom - that we will never get out of it - that the country will fall to pieces - which is of course total nonsense... this is a country which has survived several world wars / plagues / fire destroying the capital / civil war / many other wars - for anyone to consider Brexit in that light, well perhaps they are demeaning those who fought in those wars etc?

the simple reality is that we will get through it - unemployment is low currently, there are huge opportunities for trade world wide, we are an innovative, hard working country, we will have trade deals with other countries, we will even have trade deals with European countries - they won't wish to lose trade to us...

in reality we will still be way way better off than many countries in the world - yes, for some people their comfortable life might be disturbed, there might be a medicine delay (but how much better than some countries, at least we have the medicines), there might be one or two businesses which close, but generally employment rates are high and salaries are good...

the reality is simple - yes, our peaceful, easy, luxury lifestyles might be slightly bumpy over the next year / 5 years / even 10 years - we really will cope and we will still be way better off than most people in this world...

there are plenty of good reasons why Brexit makes sense (there were also good reasons for remaining), and the population has voted to leave - so we should get on and do so - to not do it will be a travesty of our democratic system - and as for issues - lets get over ourselves and crack on and make the most of what is coming...

Incidentally he also now has British Citizenship as well

Acquired from being resident in UK since 2013.

Acquired from being resident in UK since 2013.

Meaning?

Ellie56

I would favour King's opinion more

Came after

King joined the bank in 1991, became Governor in 2003 and remained in that position till 2013. So 22 years experience of UK Banking while UK was in the EU compared to Carney's 3 years up until the referendum result

Acquired from being resident in UK since 2013

Meaning?

Current legislation allows person who have resided in UK for 5 years or more to apply for UK Citizenship.

@akkakk 11:30:38

Best post yet.

one individual community or constituencies or member state voted in their entirety to leave the EU. In each there was a mix.

True. Ideally I’d like the individuals who voted for it to suffer most but sadly it doesn’t work like that!

@LatteLove stop blaming whole communities and wishing ill on them. As I posted upthread, a leave voter in London or Scotland is as responsible for the result as a leave voter in Sunderland or Wales. Each individual vote counted equally - Leave or Remain. Without the people who live in predominantly Leave areas but voted to Remain the majority for leave would have been much higher - we would never hear the end of the crowing over the overwhelming majority.

I live in a leave area. I voted to remain. I have written to my MP several times. I wrote to Theresa May. I marched, twice. I have a DH who is disabled and has a degenerative neurological condition. He is dependent on EU manufactured medication. He voted remain. His parents, in a different leave area, voted to remain. They are in their 80s. When I’ve gone on the marches they have driven three hours each way to be with DH - the only reason I was able to go.

Do you want us to be ‘hit the hardest’?

The vote must be honoured. Otherwise the country's democracy will be destroyed.

this is a country which has survived several world wars / plagues / fire destroying the capital / civil war / many other wars

And those were so damned fun that we decided to deliberately inflict more on ourselves? I’m not seeing anyone leaping forward to volunteer themselves personally to be infected with plague/ have bombs fall specifically on their house/ set fire to their business, whilst being utterly sanguine about other people “surviving” (or rather, not surviving) these uplifting educational experiences.

Mark Carney is an internationalist "citizen of nowhere". He's not loyal to Britain, and just says whatever he needs to to keep the paycheques rolling in. The sooner he's gone the better.