Do you think we definitely WILL leave the EU on October 31st 2019?

[elprup]

As it says in the title really - do you think we will definitely leave the EU on that date or do you think we'll still be "in" on November 1st?

Also, do you think we will leave with a deal or without a deal - and will Boris still be PM by then?

I'm just wondering how people will think the next three months are going to pan out, basically.

Tourists who visit UK pay VAT too when they pay for hotels, food, drink, etc. Maybe they can vote too?

If I am a UK Taxpayer why should I not be allowed to vote?

Because you don't live here?

If UK government takes money from me I am entitled to a say in how it is spent.

No, that's an over inflated sense of self importance that usually leads to pretty abhorrent views about people who don't pay tax and a bizarre superiority complex (I say that as a UK taxpayer btw)

Even those on benefits are allows to vote and they pay zero tax.

Well of course benefit claimants can vote, they live here! Why do you think not paying tax (which is bullshit because some benefits are actually taxed, shows how much you know) means that they shouldn't be able to vote?

Being a taxpayer doesn't give you iconic status, it means you pay tax. You're not the second coming.

Tourists who visit UK pay VAT too when they pay for hotels, food, drink, etc. Maybe they can vote too?

Tourist who visit from outside the EU can very often reclaim the VAT element. Whether they do so or not is up to them.

But it's an irrelevence - you were trying to argue that people on benefits didn't pay tax. They do.

Tourists who visit UK pay VAT too when they pay for hotels, food, drink, etc. Maybe they can vote too?

You're a tourist when you come to the UK!

I think if you don't live here, you shouldn't get to vote. I think if you weren't born here but live here full time and have made a life here and contribute to society on a daily basis you should be able to vote.

Once more for the hard of thinking, some benefits ARE taxed!

state benefits that are taxable and non taxable

Because you don't live here?

Okay if I can’t vote I will apply to HMRC for a tax refund based on the logic provided by MN posters. Think it will work?

You're a tourist when you come to the UK!

One that has both UK passport and citizenship.

I now do think we might possibly leave this autumn with an election straight after. Today's law and order articles by Johnson and Patel in the tabloids are all out electioneering. Who doesn't want sex offenders to serve their full sentences?
I think the Johnson, Javid, Patel team will win an election if they have Brexited. I also think they will win if people think they have been thwarted by an unholy alliance of Lib-dems, Change UK typez and austerity-Hammondy Tories.

Tourist who visit from outside the EU can very often reclaim the VAT element. Whether they do so or not is up to them

On goods they take out of UK, but not for hotels, food, drink, transport, entertainment, etc.

Okay if I can’t vote I will apply to HMRC for a tax refund based on the logic provided by MN posters. Think it will work?

Paying tax doesn't make you special, it's fairly pathetic to claim that it does. By your messed up logic, pensioners shouldn't be able to vote (they're on benefits, which are taxed btw)

One that has both UK passport and citizenship.

BUT YOU DON'T LIVE HERE. I have a Spanish passport, does that mean I should be able to vote in Spain despite not living there? Does it shite.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49309112

By your messed up logic, pensioners shouldn't be able to vote

State pension received is deducted from the personal tax allowance which is a tax. So pensioners are entitled to vote.

I have a Spanish passport, does that mean I should be able to vote in Spain despite not living there?

Paying any taxes in Spain 🇪🇸?

State pension received is deducted from the personal tax allowance which is a tax. So pensioners are entitled to vote.

Your assertions that paying tax mean entitlement to vote are thankfully not considered reasonable by the government.

You don't live here, you shouldn't be able to vote. I don't give a shit if you pay a million quid a year in tax. You don't contribute to society in the UK on a daily basis and clearly don't have a clue about it.

Paying any taxes in Spain?

Yes, actually.

But I don't live in Spain, I'm not part of Spanish society, and I'm not enough of a wanker to think that paying tax from afar gives me the right to.

Guys, I said that before: many countries allow for non resident the vote to political elections. That’s pretty logical to me, as you cite every 5 or so years, you might be abroad for less than that, or you might have interests (a house, a pension, family etc) that still is there and a government can take decisions without considering your interests. Having someone that in theory voices your concerns in Parliament is good. Say for instance your U.K. government decides to completely change the pension payments to expats (a fairly relevant example as soon enough there’ll be a mess of colossal proportions with millions of people having pension funds in countries that will have no agreement. Both U.K. and EU citizens). If you have a rep you can hope that he’ll lobby for your cause. If you don’t, you’re at the mercy of the “local” reps that might not give a fig about a few hundreds voters from abroad.
People move, during their lifetime. I was born in a country, moved here and spent the most part (not all) of my working life here, but was planning to move to a third country to retire, thus also not being a burden to the NHS in my older years. What’s wrong with this? (The U.K. got me as a skilled professional, educated at the expense of another country, and will hopefully see me going when I get old and wobbly. Ideal!)

Your right to vote isnt about tax.

Personally, I can't see why Britons who have a UK income but live overseas can't have a vote. Quite a lot of other countries allow this, and even have a specific MP to represent their interests.

In a similar vein, I can't see why those pensioners who paid enough NIC stamps to get a full pension do not get an uprating if they live in e.g. Canada.

Exactly.
Grasspigeon ever heard of “no taxation without representation”? We can waste time discussing if VAT counts as tax or not for this purpose (I personally would not, as it’s related to commerce and not income or residence). But as a concept, it’s hundreds of years old. I am tempted to dig out the rules of the Romans....

I was thinking more that this leads to disenfranchising people who dont pay income tax.

But Value Added Tax is a tax, it says so in the name.

Class 4 NIC paid by the self-employed can also be considered a tax because they don't count towards claiming benefits or the state pension.

that, or you might have interests (a house, a pension, family etc) that still is there and a government can take decisions without considering your interests

Exactly. I have property, dependents, pensions in UK which UK can legislate on at any time.

I was thinking more that this leads to disenfranchising people who dont pay income tax.

This.

Also, the implication that the rich should have more of a say in what happens leads down a very dangerous path. It wasn't so many years ago that only the rich had the vote!

Exactly. I have property, dependents, pensions in UK which UK can legislate on at any time.

So do I.

It doesn't mean I can deem people lesser and ineligible to vote because they don't. Which is exactly what you did from wherever it is you live now.

That's what I have an issue with. Your archaic and elitist attitude as if having money makes you somehow superior.

It doesn't.

In a similar vein, I can't see why those pensioners who paid enough NIC stamps to get a full pension do not get an uprating if they live in e.g. Canada

UK government logic is that if state pension is being spent outside the UK then there are no index linked increases as UK is not benefiting from the persons spending.

With the reference to oil revenue that are two alternatives to where Nosy lives.

Either in Norway, in which case he can gain citizenship after the requisite residency period (so no ethnic/birth restriction ) but would have had to undertake 300 hours of tuition in Norwegian (why do I get the impression he wouldn't be keen on that? ). He also wouldn't have a "share" of the oil "revenue" as the extremely large Oil Fund is a state owned Sovereign Wealth Fund, not something accessible to individual citizens https://www.udi.no/en/want-to-apply/citizenship/citizenship-for-people-who-have-used-the-registration-scheme-for-eueea-nationals/?c=gbr#link-561

or somewhere else, outside the EEA, so, like Janista in Oz, fully cushioned from the impact of Brexit

So feel free to ignore him