Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: Brexit Preppers Are Traitors Who Don't Believe Enough

947 replies

RedToothBrush · 01/08/2019 12:31

Believe in Brexit. Brexit will be great. If only you believe.

So this is why the pound has tanked.
This is why the Treasury has opened the piggie bank for prep. This has sparked something of a backlash amongst moderates and remain MPs.
This will go towards managing that Channel Tunnel Congestion in Kent we weren't going to have.
And to stockpiling drugs which again was just hysteria.
This is why Gove, an MP who actually does have an eye for detail, has been drafted into the Cabinet Office.
This is why after his stint at DEFRA he is planning to buy tonnes of meat at a fixed price to keep farms in business.

Johnson has been to NI. But it wasn't a publicity stunt apparently. This is a man who posed for a photo when he resigned from the Foreign Office.

He was met with protests.

He also has a phonecall with the Leo Varadkar which was 'warm', before its been said by the DUP that Dublin must be a willing partner in a Brexit Deal.

Johnson is also still sticking to the line that technology can solve the border issue. Technology which will not be available until 2030 at the earliest by the government's own admission.

Johnson has refused to meet any European leaders until they drop the backstop (I note there are no EU meetings planned until mid October just a couple of weeks before the 31st anyway, so this kind of suits him and makes him look tough when really its been timetabled that way for a while. The EU themselves say that the 'next possible contact' with Johnson isn't until the G7 at the end of August anyway too).

However his 'Brexit Sherpa' David Frost - Olly Robbins successor HAS been meeting with EU officials still...

Dr Phillip Lee has confirmed today that he is actively considering his future as a Tory and defecting to the LDs. The rumour has been going for a while, and he is in the process of being deselected by his local party. To openly say it, is quite something though.

We also have the Brecon By Election today, which if the LD win as expected, would reduce the government's majority to just 1.

It is possible that Johnson will be leading a minority government very soon, if the cards fall the right way.

The speculation is rife that Johnson actively wants to force a GE. This hasn't been helped by Dominic Cummings has ordered the preparation of a Budget in the week starting Oct 7. Which would need to be voted for through parliament.

Votes on budget and other important issues are where not having a majority become crucial.

If a budget vote got stuck and provoked a GE it would perhaps land whilst Brexit Party Supporters had returned to the Tory party but perhaps before all the shit has start to hit the fan and people get really fed up.

And even if we do have no deal, when we DO have a deal, we will have to put a bill through parliament to implement it. Whilst everyone has focused on the backstop, no one has thought about this... which is pretty important.

It is remarkable that a No Deal Supporting Government are now seemingly planning for Project Fear.

And we were the crazy ones?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
38
Motheroffourdragons · 02/08/2019 07:38

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

RedToothBrush · 02/08/2019 07:41

Telegraph.

Why no deal is the most likely outcome

Westministenders: Brexit Preppers Are Traitors Who Don't Believe Enough
OP posts:
NoWordForFluffy · 02/08/2019 07:46

I'm not sure I trust the Telegraph to do non-loaded research, bearing in mind their bias!

The chart from Sam Coates last night showed food shortages after a fortnight, which would be during election campaigning, so I'd take what people say now with a pinch of salt as many still believe in sunlit uplands post-no deal. When the harsh reality sets it (quite quickly) people may very well change their minds about how great their leaders are!

NoWordForFluffy · 02/08/2019 07:48

In other words, the government should look at that kind of research with a health warning attached.

DarkAtEndOfTunnel · 02/08/2019 07:48

More proof, if it were needed, that "democracy" in Britain has been overtaken by those purely interested in pursuing their own power, whatever happens to the country. It's the entirely natural result of a culture encouraging self-interest and greed above all else. The more powerful groups who are willing to shit all over everyone else naturally float to the top.

DarkAtEndOfTunnel · 02/08/2019 07:51

When the food shortages set in NoWord, the kind of people who voted for Brexit aren't going to stop and figure out exactly what went wrong, they're going to be out on the streets throwing whatever comes to hand at whoever happens to be in the vicinity: preferably people who won't fight back too hard. So women and minorities as usual.

flouncyfanny · 02/08/2019 07:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NoWordForFluffy · 02/08/2019 07:54

@DarkAtEndOfTunnel, I don't think all leave-voting people are like that. Do you really think ALL of them are? I'd say the most vociferous no dealers probably are, but not every leave voter is a rioting thug!

BoreOfWhabylon · 02/08/2019 08:02

pmk

DarkAtEndOfTunnel · 02/08/2019 08:02

That is true Fluffy. There'll be a few remain-voting people in the crowds as well of course. I tend to think that they'll have very good justification, whereas leavers have only themselves to blame.

TemporaryPermanent · 02/08/2019 08:06

I think violence will be the occasional scuffle and possibly a burglary wave of things are very bad.

The leave voters I know are either very gentle or very old.

RedToothBrush · 02/08/2019 08:11

Peter Foster @pmdfoster
The normalisation of the risks of a 'no deal' Brexit is one of the most amazing aspects of this entire episode - that a Government should start its election pitch on the basis of an act of econmic self-harm (whatever your views as to where it leads). 1/

But it really does now seem as if we are heading towards a 'no deal' in order that @BorisJohnson can see off the threat from @NigelFarage @brexitpartyuk - these polls are right. /2
[the no deal one above)]

^Lots of pondering what the 'ultimate' aim of @BorisJohnson
govt is....would they really go for a 'no deal' when the planning looks so messy.... as revealed by @SamCoatesSky yesterday /3^

But the truth is, @BorisJohnson has deliberately framed the new #Brexit discussion in such a way that it makes 'no deal' politically far more likely...eschewin diplomatic outreach to seek surgical changes to backstop, taking a maximalist 'bin the backstop' position. /4

That means that even if this hardnut approach delivered, say, a time-limit to the Irish backstop and Geoffrey Cox changed that legal advice, it could only be seen as a failure.

@BorisJohnson would return to UK as Chamberlain, not Churchill. /5

Some will hope it's a snap General Election before no deal (needs to happen by Sept 3) OR that @BorisJohnson will secretly hope he's mandated to seek an extension to avoid 'no deal'...but the political imperative to kill the @brexitparty_uk suggests otherwise. /6

Nothing you hear from inside Whitehall or Brussels at the moment suggests anything other than a 'no deal', or that this coming 'negotiation' will be framed any differently from the (failed) May/Cameron negotations - big demands, small concessions, disappointment in London. /7

The British position is the same in private as in public.

Bin the backstop, we'll sort citizens, then give us a minimal FTA, cushioned by bilateral mini-deals.

Suffice to say that's not where EU side are... /8

You can speculate over how far @EU_Commission will hold the line on mini-deals, but if negotiations of the last 3-4 years show anything, surely it's that the EU will defend its legal order and the EU single market...just look at the heat Ireland is taking to prepare border. /9

EU officials see inexorable political logic on UK side but genuinely baffled how UK govt could responsibly do a 'no deal' with no clarity on how trucks/transport/containters/services (Mode 4/5) pharmaceuticals etc get delivered... Johnson won't even accept invite from Macron! /10

So real trepidation in Europe - real concern that, as one senior EU diplomat put it to me - the British government is no longer in the camp that deals with the EU as a rational economic and legal actor. But is in the Trump camp. That's not name-calling, but a question. /11

Is the British government under @BorisJohnson entering a paradigm shift, to a Trumpian kind of politics? Coarse, nationalist and ultimately bullying?

And if so, given UK importance to EU trade and security, would appeasing it help or hinder stabilisation? /12

This may be the fundamental calculation come October.

It may also be @BorisJohnson fundamental miscalculation that the EU will respond to his politics as they do to Trumps - doing everythign to head off those car tariffs etc. /13

Because Trump is ultimately EU security guarantor, via Nato; holder of the world's reserve currency; weaponised financial superpower (think Iran sanctions v EU).....but the UK is not in that category. /14

As one on EU side put it to me:

"Everyone has read Trump's 'Art of a Deal' and knows you need to flatter his daughter to keep him happy..but no-one is bothering reading Johnson's biog of Churchill."

/15

Fighting talk, but with Johnson facing those political imperatives noted above, the EU will have to decide if it wants to put it's money where its mouth is (literally) come October....with all the strategic consquences that implies. /16

They will have to decide if appeasing the UK with a 'managed' 'no deal' is worth the downside political risk of rewarding what is essentially a full-blown populist government...not in Italy or Hungary...but in the nation once considere the 'pragmatic' one in the EU. /17

Direct Rule in Northern Ireland, with all that implies for the future of the United Kingdom.

Economic self-harm over both short and medium term.

The European Union, from a global perspective, fraying visibly as a viable geopolitical entity. /18

Thread ongoing but I need to get up.

Speculation that Frank Field is going to join another political party today. Possibly not the Brexit Party either despite his leave stance.

OP posts:
Justaboutdone · 02/08/2019 08:11

Surely it’s time for Boris to be honest for the 1st time in his life.

He needs to give correct ‘facts’ about No Deal. Best case, worse case scenarios etc. What the major concerns are. Why may happen 1 day, 1 week, 1 month like the leaked document.

He needs to be truthful and it needs to come from his mouth.

Make people aware of No Deal. Up until this point I don’t really think a Brexiteer has every done it.

And if he doesn’t. Well my thoughts on him as a person are already unrepeatable.

DarkAtEndOfTunnel · 02/08/2019 08:15

You don't remember the 2011 riots then? A lot of people are very angry. Many have no stake in maintaining the system. All it will take is a trigger. I think this is going to be worse than the 80s Miner Strikes. The unrest itself might blow over, assuming food and medicine shortages are only short-term, and be forgotten in much the same way as both those strikes and the later riots, but the damage to public trust which the former particularly caused will last much longer.

Triglesoffy · 02/08/2019 08:20

Boris will never tell the truth. The current Tories are a pack of liars and should never be trusted. And I say that as a former CP member Blush sorry.

CrunchyCarrot · 02/08/2019 08:23

What point would there be in the Brexit Party if the UK does leave the EU with some kind of a WA? What would they be putting forward as a policy if we then have a GE? As far as I understand it they simply want to leave the EU - that would have been achieved? There would be no reason for them to exist, other than to aggravate the EU during the transition period.

JoannaCuppa · 02/08/2019 08:33

Corbyn's Lexiter policy continues to cripple the party in elections

Yes. I was called by Labour yesterday wondering whether I wanted to renew my membership. The call went something like this:

Them: Why don't you want to reactivate your membership?

Me: Well, he has white hair, a beard and the initials JC........

Them: Jeremy Corbyn? Why do you have an issue with Jeremy?

Me: Well, the fact that it has taken eons for him to.choose a side over Brexit...

Them: (Huge sigh) So the referendum.....?

Me: Yes, but that's not all. He has also only just barely got his arse in gear to even begin to try to address the anti-semitism in the par........hello? Hello?

Caller had hung up! Grin

RedToothBrush · 02/08/2019 08:33

I remember the 2011 riots.

Boris Johnson was London Mayor.

He was on holiday at the time.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 02/08/2019 08:35

Surely it’s time for Boris to be honest for the 1st time in his life.

Why?

How does that benefit Johnson?

OP posts:
Rhubarbisevil · 02/08/2019 08:35

I bet he wishes that water cannon was still here....

SalrycLuxx · 02/08/2019 08:35

joanna clearly you should not be looking at what they’ve actually been doing but should instead consider the things they plan to do should they ever get a sniff of power... looking at track record is just not on!

JoannaCuppa · 02/08/2019 08:36

Ah, but he must have NEEDED a holiday, Red. It must be very exhausting for blowhards like BJ to blowhard ALL the time!

(Was it a holiday or a recon for water cannon? Wink)

ImNotYourGranny · 02/08/2019 08:38

pmk

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 02/08/2019 08:39

So pleased the Lib Dem’s won. But a bit gutted the “leave” vote was higher than the “remain” one. Although this was a leave seat and I think the Leave percentage came down (willing to be corrected on that).

Labours result was shocking. Really hope this is the wake up call Corbyn needs to fucking resign already.

JoannaCuppa · 02/08/2019 08:45

@Rhubarbisevil Ha, you were on the same train of thought as me Grin

@SalrycLuxx I know .

I did take great pains to point out that my Labour MP is very hardworking and I would vote for her again, and that it was ONLY the leadership I have an issue with. Just in case I wasn't quite enough about my Corbyn loathing! (Even if my MP is an ideological purist who voted down the WA as she wanted a People's Vote. When I asked via Twitter what she wanted people to actually vote on in a PV, if she continued to vote against any and all proposals or amendments, she was a bit quiet Hmm)