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Brexit

Westministenders: Brexit Preppers Are Traitors Who Don't Believe Enough

947 replies

RedToothBrush · 01/08/2019 12:31

Believe in Brexit. Brexit will be great. If only you believe.

So this is why the pound has tanked.
This is why the Treasury has opened the piggie bank for prep. This has sparked something of a backlash amongst moderates and remain MPs.
This will go towards managing that Channel Tunnel Congestion in Kent we weren't going to have.
And to stockpiling drugs which again was just hysteria.
This is why Gove, an MP who actually does have an eye for detail, has been drafted into the Cabinet Office.
This is why after his stint at DEFRA he is planning to buy tonnes of meat at a fixed price to keep farms in business.

Johnson has been to NI. But it wasn't a publicity stunt apparently. This is a man who posed for a photo when he resigned from the Foreign Office.

He was met with protests.

He also has a phonecall with the Leo Varadkar which was 'warm', before its been said by the DUP that Dublin must be a willing partner in a Brexit Deal.

Johnson is also still sticking to the line that technology can solve the border issue. Technology which will not be available until 2030 at the earliest by the government's own admission.

Johnson has refused to meet any European leaders until they drop the backstop (I note there are no EU meetings planned until mid October just a couple of weeks before the 31st anyway, so this kind of suits him and makes him look tough when really its been timetabled that way for a while. The EU themselves say that the 'next possible contact' with Johnson isn't until the G7 at the end of August anyway too).

However his 'Brexit Sherpa' David Frost - Olly Robbins successor HAS been meeting with EU officials still...

Dr Phillip Lee has confirmed today that he is actively considering his future as a Tory and defecting to the LDs. The rumour has been going for a while, and he is in the process of being deselected by his local party. To openly say it, is quite something though.

We also have the Brecon By Election today, which if the LD win as expected, would reduce the government's majority to just 1.

It is possible that Johnson will be leading a minority government very soon, if the cards fall the right way.

The speculation is rife that Johnson actively wants to force a GE. This hasn't been helped by Dominic Cummings has ordered the preparation of a Budget in the week starting Oct 7. Which would need to be voted for through parliament.

Votes on budget and other important issues are where not having a majority become crucial.

If a budget vote got stuck and provoked a GE it would perhaps land whilst Brexit Party Supporters had returned to the Tory party but perhaps before all the shit has start to hit the fan and people get really fed up.

And even if we do have no deal, when we DO have a deal, we will have to put a bill through parliament to implement it. Whilst everyone has focused on the backstop, no one has thought about this... which is pretty important.

It is remarkable that a No Deal Supporting Government are now seemingly planning for Project Fear.

And we were the crazy ones?

OP posts:
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DGRossetti · 02/08/2019 16:53

That may be so now, but it wasn't last year, when Selmayr suggested to Liddington a pause of at least 5 years, during which the UK could decide how it wanted to proceed

The key phrase there is "last year". Things have moved on apace. It's clear the UK wasn't gripped by some moment of madness that is treatable. at least not with current political knowledge.

The UK is clearly in the throes of a much deeper malaise, and keeping it's fluids up and taking brufen isn't going to see us through. Best thing is probably to quarantine us until the scientists can work out what is wrong and how to treat it. It might help to imagine we are in the second act of an episode of "House".

Who is patient zero ? The UK or US ? And is this a case of some long-dormant virus being reawakened by exposure to air, like a plague pit being reopened ? Or is it a more worrying cross-species jump from one country to another ?

Apileofballyhoo · 02/08/2019 17:02

Don't know if this has been posted - interesting bit of thinking outside the box/clutching at straws from Fintan O'Toole.

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-ireland-can-stop-a-no-deal-brexit-here-s-how-1.3972121?mode=amp&fbclid=IwAR3yF5Bt8bJ8pIbOL8i3i3dzd9uewr9okUQ9pZoyz3Z2jTrB-Xxb3L4-Fw4

QuckTheDuck · 02/08/2019 17:04

QQ1 - what is this "deposit" Labour would have lost?

QQ2 - someone please explain keynesian economics? I googled but am no clearer Blush

apologies for being so dim!

Peregrina · 02/08/2019 17:07

What has Frog face said about the by-election, except that he ought to have won, but somehow he didn't and it's not fair?

DGRossetti · 02/08/2019 17:11

What has Frog face said about the by-election, except that he ought to have won, but somehow he didn't and it's not fair?

Probably something horrendously insulting like suggesting the Welsh fiddled postal voting because they have funny accents too ?

DGRossetti · 02/08/2019 17:14

So making the UK poorer is even worse for the environment, apparently ?

www.theregister.co.uk/2019/08/02/development_and_conservation_not_mutually_exclusive/

Researchers from the Zoological Society of London and UCL have found a clear link between economic development and improved biodiversity

...

I wonder what Leave-toting climate change worriers make of it ? (With an awareness that climate change deniers are over represented in the Leave camp ....)

Hazardtired · 02/08/2019 17:15

apile that's the most interesting take and straw clutch I've read yet. Can't see it happening but would love it to, not just for brexit but it's about time for NI to make it self fully heard in Westminster.

NoWordForFluffy · 02/08/2019 17:15

Deposit here, @QuckTheDuck.

Westministenders: Brexit Preppers Are Traitors Who Don't Believe Enough
BestIsWest · 02/08/2019 17:20

PMK with sorrowful dog in babygro after having his balls removed.

Westministenders: Brexit Preppers Are Traitors Who Don't Believe Enough
DGRossetti · 02/08/2019 17:22

I like the Fintan suggestion. It's everything that's not going to happen.

What would it lose? Just some money. The party would be unable to claim, for a short time, the £100,000 (€109,000) or so in expenses it gets from Westminster annually. It seems a very small price to pay for the protection of the interests of so many people on both sides of the Border and the knowledge that when a historic challenge was posed, everyone who claims to have those interests at heart did all they could to meet it.

If Sinn Fein wanted to crowdfund on that platform, I've got £10 waiting to go.

DGRossetti · 02/08/2019 17:24

Hugh Grant has let himself go.

Westministenders: Brexit Preppers Are Traitors Who Don't Believe Enough
TheElementsSong · 02/08/2019 17:24

I wonder what Leave-toting climate change worriers make of it ?

They'll be mysteriously unconcerned for their much-vaunted environmental standards in favour of climate change deniers and lightbulb-fetishists, just as the ones who claim they voted for more brown-people-immigration are mysteriously unconcerned about supporting racist and xenophobic politicians.

howabout · 02/08/2019 17:25

Q1 If you don't poll 5% of votes in an election you lose your £500 deposit.

Q2 counter cyclical spending to boost consumption and investment in a recession. It was a response to prevent another 1930s style collapse when rebuilding post WW2. Went wrong in the 70s because Government spending above productive capacity crowds out private spending and causes inflation.

There is a dearth of investment spending contributing to low productivity and interest rates are close to zero. Therefore case for Keynesianism today quite strong. Boris is proposing "fiscal expansion" because Government is spending below sustainable tax receipts, not because he believes in Keynes. Carney signalled yesterday that monetary response may not be helpful because any fall in interest rates to boost demand would be offset by a fall in the pound causing inflation.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/08/2019 17:26

Sympathy to all the beautiful MN kittens & pups who have had their pockets picked

... and then had to wear fancy dress ! 😂

DGRossetti · 02/08/2019 17:26

Roosevelts "New Deal" in the US was an example of Kenyesian economics.

DarkAtEndOfTunnel · 02/08/2019 17:28

Quck, everyone standing as an MP is required to submit a deposit of £500. It is to deter time-wasters. If they get more than 5% of the total votes cast, it is returned: if not, it's kept.

Keynesian economics... hopefully someone better will be along to help shortly. It's classed as left-wing, as opposed to right wing free market thinking, which as Marx observed leads directly to huge inequality. It's also in direct contradiction to thinking favouring austerity policies in times of trouble. John Maynard Keynes lived through the Great Depression and was interested in this boom-bust cycle. Essentially he was in favour of state intervention in the economy to stimulate it, by such measures as redistribution, regulation of markets, as well as more direct fiscal "stuff" that I don't get - import tariffs and so on. Is that a start? The aim is to create demand within the economy. In austerity thinking, wages are cut, jobs slashed, public spending stops, no one has any spare money and so we just descend into a spiralling recession.

Hazardtired · 02/08/2019 17:28

I'm sat here wondering if I should try emailing them.

Get some MN kids to donate pocket money to a crowdfund, that's adorable, they can't say no esp if parents send cute pics of the kids with pleading eyes and their piggy banks.

DarkAtEndOfTunnel · 02/08/2019 17:28

x-post!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/08/2019 17:31

The Tories spent much of the 1980s and 90s denouncing Keynesian economics and proclaiming their monetarism, then proclaiming how austerity was vital

They are masters at the art of totally fucking up the economy and blaming Labour

Now they are aiming for additional applause for rescuing the country from the deep hole they dug it into

DGRossetti · 02/08/2019 17:33

The problem with Keynesian investment is it's also a magnet for the spivs. So by the time that £ actually gets into the system, 95p has gone to consultants, advisers, preferred bidders and all sorts of hangers on.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/08/2019 17:33

The DUP are known as the Party of NO

but imo Sinn Féin come a strong second in the NO stakes

DarkAtEndOfTunnel · 02/08/2019 17:35

It certainly can be and it certainly was under New Labour, when the public sector was forced to open up to the private sector. Well, all right, it's simplistic to say that the old public sector was without fault, but we need it back with better ways of holding it accountable than merely stripping all the assets out of it and handing them to the private sector. New Labour's attempted compromise simply didn't work.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/08/2019 17:36

Joe Twymann@JoeTwyman*

Compared to Brecon and Radnorshire there are currently 45 constituencies held by Conservative MPs that are

1) Less safe and

2) Have higher proportions estimated to have voted Remain.

BestIsWest · 02/08/2019 17:36

Keynesian economics used to be described in v simple terms as paying people to dig holes and fill them in again. The logic being that the workers had money to spend, increased demand for goods meant businesses could expand and employ more people who in turn had more money to spend, a multiplier effect.

DGRossetti · 02/08/2019 17:40

Keynesian economics used to be described in v simple terms as paying people to dig holes and fill them in again.

Done badly, maybe.

Done properly, it builds roads, railways, infrastructure that can then make money when the economy picks up again.

Incidentally, the New Deal wasn't free from the whiff of backhanders ... I know Huey Long was a crook, despite having a bridge named after him ...

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