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Brexit

Westministenders: Brexit Preppers Are Traitors Who Don't Believe Enough

947 replies

RedToothBrush · 01/08/2019 12:31

Believe in Brexit. Brexit will be great. If only you believe.

So this is why the pound has tanked.
This is why the Treasury has opened the piggie bank for prep. This has sparked something of a backlash amongst moderates and remain MPs.
This will go towards managing that Channel Tunnel Congestion in Kent we weren't going to have.
And to stockpiling drugs which again was just hysteria.
This is why Gove, an MP who actually does have an eye for detail, has been drafted into the Cabinet Office.
This is why after his stint at DEFRA he is planning to buy tonnes of meat at a fixed price to keep farms in business.

Johnson has been to NI. But it wasn't a publicity stunt apparently. This is a man who posed for a photo when he resigned from the Foreign Office.

He was met with protests.

He also has a phonecall with the Leo Varadkar which was 'warm', before its been said by the DUP that Dublin must be a willing partner in a Brexit Deal.

Johnson is also still sticking to the line that technology can solve the border issue. Technology which will not be available until 2030 at the earliest by the government's own admission.

Johnson has refused to meet any European leaders until they drop the backstop (I note there are no EU meetings planned until mid October just a couple of weeks before the 31st anyway, so this kind of suits him and makes him look tough when really its been timetabled that way for a while. The EU themselves say that the 'next possible contact' with Johnson isn't until the G7 at the end of August anyway too).

However his 'Brexit Sherpa' David Frost - Olly Robbins successor HAS been meeting with EU officials still...

Dr Phillip Lee has confirmed today that he is actively considering his future as a Tory and defecting to the LDs. The rumour has been going for a while, and he is in the process of being deselected by his local party. To openly say it, is quite something though.

We also have the Brecon By Election today, which if the LD win as expected, would reduce the government's majority to just 1.

It is possible that Johnson will be leading a minority government very soon, if the cards fall the right way.

The speculation is rife that Johnson actively wants to force a GE. This hasn't been helped by Dominic Cummings has ordered the preparation of a Budget in the week starting Oct 7. Which would need to be voted for through parliament.

Votes on budget and other important issues are where not having a majority become crucial.

If a budget vote got stuck and provoked a GE it would perhaps land whilst Brexit Party Supporters had returned to the Tory party but perhaps before all the shit has start to hit the fan and people get really fed up.

And even if we do have no deal, when we DO have a deal, we will have to put a bill through parliament to implement it. Whilst everyone has focused on the backstop, no one has thought about this... which is pretty important.

It is remarkable that a No Deal Supporting Government are now seemingly planning for Project Fear.

And we were the crazy ones?

OP posts:
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Motheroffourdragons · 02/08/2019 14:58

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

DGRossetti · 02/08/2019 15:00

Meanwhile, people who like a good trade war, should pay attention to Japan and South Korea ...

www.theregister.co.uk/2019/08/02/japan_south_korea_trade_list/
...
US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo previously called on the two countries to bury the hatchet, and will attempt to mediate a meeting between their foreign ministers later this week.

prettybird · 02/08/2019 15:13

All the SNP members and voters that I know are ex-Labour Confused

They haven't been "Tartan Tories" for over 20 years; many of their policies in recent years have been to the left of Labour Confused -

dreichhighlands · 02/08/2019 15:17

prettybird the SNP voters I know come from all of the other political parties or none but it is still an insult I hear used against the SNP particularly by some Labour voters, my db included who isn't that much older than 20 himself!

prettybird · 02/08/2019 15:18

....including me Wink

I look forward to a new and re-invigorated independent Scottish Labour Party being created post independence, which I might even consider voting for! Grin

TheElementsSong · 02/08/2019 15:21

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3654136-To-ask-leavers-if-they-would-vote-differently-now-its-looking-like-no-deal?

Bloody hell, this thread. Every lie and misconception, every simplistic slogan, every Brexit Bingo phrase, ever conceived in the past 3 years, all on one thread.

Plus ample examples of Leavers contradicting each other but selectively never seeing anything to address except the specific posts of those Leavers who agree with them, or the perceived "all Leavers blah-blah" "insults" they see from Remainers.

prettybird · 02/08/2019 15:26

I know dreichuplands - it is an insult that has unfortunately stuck Sad - not based on any current evidence Confused

...but I know more and more Labour activists who are abandoning Labour and joining the SNP, either as members or just as supporters. A bit like the LibDems amongst the remain supporters in England, they are being "lent" their vote.

But at present, as left wing activists and members, they rightly influence the SNP policies.

DGRossetti · 02/08/2019 15:28

.

Westministenders: Brexit Preppers Are Traitors Who Don't Believe Enough
LouiseCollins28 · 02/08/2019 15:37

Plenty of fun to be had with this, I think

"I have voted to leave my partner and plan to concluded separate deals with other potential partners to get the best deal for me" = Sexit

"I have voted to leave my (dinosaur) partner and plan to conclude separate deals with other potential (dinosaur) partners to get the best deal for me" = TRexit

Grin
bellinisurge · 02/08/2019 15:47

@DGRossetti . Me like. GrinGrin

NoWordForFluffy · 02/08/2019 15:57

Ahhhh...Sharon would like Trexit!

(Does anyone recall the T-Rexing round Asda thread from years ago? If not I sound quite deranged!)

Icantreachthepretzels · 02/08/2019 16:01

"I have voted to leave my partner and plan to concluded separate deals with other potential partners to get the best deal for me" = Sexit

Except that this a perfectly reasonable stance Confused
whereas the netflix one is demonstrating ow fucking stupid the idea of brexit is.

I can understand why a person who voted leave wouldn't understand that, though.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/08/2019 16:09

@louisecollins re a referendum must always be carried out first:

Imagine a radical Labour leader & party were elected with a small working majority of 12 seats, like Cameron in 2015

As in their manifesto, they call a referendum on whether the UK should leave NATO and expel all US bases
"Turn swords into ploughshares - and the US would still defend us anyway, because they have to"

They win the referendum by 51.9% to 48.1%

So the long process begins of decommissioning all the US military & intelligence bases,
also prepare the ground for new buildings - residential houses, parks, hospitals, shops etc - just as promised in the manifesto

However, the referendum promises by Labour don't pan out:

The US makes it clear the UK is non its own if anyone invades,
because if everyone leaves NATO, but still keeps the main benefits, then the US would be doing the ndefending all on its own
( and without the benefit of Uk & other bases that it currently uses to help logistics in Middle East wars)

Also, traces of Russian interference & sophisticated psyops in the referendum start to appear

SO the losing side has never given up
people realise that keeping the benefits without the obligations was fantasy ...
and option shifts towards staying in NATO and keeping the bases after all

Wouldn't you want a PV then on the real consequences of leaving NATO vs staying ?

CrunchyCarrot · 02/08/2019 16:12

Thanks for that explanation wheresmymojo Smile

So my view is there is a game plan:

*1. Brexit - remove EU oversight

  1. Replace FPTP so that smaller parties have a greater chance of representation. Smaller parties like BXP
  2. Then what....? The ultimate aim isn't shared but I doubt any of us on this thread would like it.*

Yes of course, Farage has that link with Trump. Trump will dump him if it suits, too!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/08/2019 16:13

Because if those USA bases have to be all decommissioned, dismantled and built over first, to obey the referendum result,
then the bases could never be built again;
it would take tens / hundreds of billions that the US would never invest

So the only chance for the public to show the new facts changed their minds would be a PV

BigChocFrenzy · 02/08/2019 16:14

curnch, mojo From what I've read, Farage wants to replace the Tory party - which he considers too liberal Shock - by his own very hard right and racist party

DGRossetti · 02/08/2019 16:18

From what I've read, Farage wants to replace the Tory party

Hmm

A party which has lasted a millennia will suddenly crumble when a man like a frog says "boo" ? I wonder if he wants a bridge ?

BigChocFrenzy · 02/08/2019 16:29

DG The Tory party has existed since 1834

BigChocFrenzy · 02/08/2019 16:30

It last won a substantial majority - hardly Cameron's 12 seater in 2015 - in 1987

BigChocFrenzy · 02/08/2019 16:40

re the EU not having any more patience to give the UK a safe space:

That may be so now, but it wasn't last year, when Selmayr suggested to Liddington a pause of at least 5 years, during which the UK could decide how it wanted to proceed
He also suggested Associate Membership, possibly as a stepping stone - which Cameron refused in 2015 ... but he's history

In fact however, I meant that 10 years safe place should have been the original plan, the only way Brexit could be carried out without tearing the country apart

There is a fundamental problem in a democracy in trying to carry out something horrendously complex and hence something that will take several years, but is very controversial
The best way is to have a continuing large consensus in favour
Failing that, it is essential to make it nearly painless as possible

If the 1975 referendum to stay in the Common Market had been only 51.9% instead of 67% to 33%,
it is likely resistance would have grown and we might have left before fully integrating in the CM

Even with 67%, voices from Brussels, Germany & France expressed concern that nearly â…“ did not want to be in the CM

DGRossetti · 02/08/2019 16:45

DG The Tory party has existed since 1834

I am contending that it's current manifestation can be traced back to the Normans that followed William in 1066 and who have created a framework to maintain wealth and power that has lasted ... a millennia. Seeing off any number of dynastic disputes, a change in religion, a regicide, rise and fall of an empire, two world wars, the emergence and decline of socialism, and the word "holibobs".

DG The Tory party has existed since 1834

And yet the word "Tory" is an Irish insult from the 17th century.

The Tory party is much closer to it's medieval antecedents than the current Roman Empire is to the Catholic Church it became. It's the tardigrade of politics.

DGRossetti · 02/08/2019 16:47

One for y'all

Westministenders: Brexit Preppers Are Traitors Who Don't Believe Enough
MaxNormal · 02/08/2019 16:48

@NoWordForFluffy I remember that thread. It was a work of genius rivalled only by screaming in the Sistine chapel.

Hazardtired · 02/08/2019 16:49

From wiki

The word Tory derives from the Middle Irish word tóraidhe; modern Irish tóraí; modern Scottish Gaelic Tòraidh: outlaw, robber or brigand, from the Irish word tóir, meaning "pursuit", since outlaws were "pursued men"

How suitable!

NoWordForFluffy · 02/08/2019 16:53

@MaxNormal, if the Sistene Chapel one was real, the OP was a total loon!

My fridge has found religion was really funny too. Back in the day when there were properly amusing threads. There's a dearth these days. Sad