How will this rift ever be healed?

[Bearbehind]

Emotions around Brexit are always going to run high but I genuinely don’t see how the divide can ever be bridged.

Anything less than no deal and the hardcore Leavers are never going to stop talking about breaches of democracy.

No deal and all the signs say it’s going to go to rat shit.

So where do we go?

I think it is caused because we choose not to listen to each other and accept that other people can have very differing views to ours and that this does not make them demons.

Agreed, and until very, very recently I'd have been prepared to listen and try to find some middle ground. I've tried, in RL and online. I should mention the two MNetters whose usernames I forget who did have a nice conversation with me about our differing opinions. We never agreed, but we were respectful of each other.

So aye, I was open to trying until very recently.

Now?

I'm done.

There seems to be an attempt on here and elsewhere to say that anyone against no Deal is trying to force Remain. Only the pure really BELIEVE. Jesus, catch yourself on with that ridiculous bullshit. Fucking compromise!

I think it is caused because we choose not to listen to each other and accept that other people can have very differing views to ours and that this does not make them demons

I do think part of the problem was caused by exactly this. If people expressed concern about immigration, they were shut down as being racist. Instead of considering the very real problems that population growth (however caused - by people moving from other parts of the UK or outwith the UK - or by a high birth rate) without proper infrastructure investment causes. So when they got a chance to express their displeasure they voted Leave.

Look at the "no platforming" in universities. People don't like being confronted with views they don't agree with and/or don't consider to be acceptable.

Also agree that compromise should be the name of the game with Brexit with such a close vote. That was what frustrated Nick Boles so much - he came up with a plan and his own party refused to compromise.

I have read the GFA and it says nothing about a border

It IS predicated on both Ireland and the UK being in the EU and that is the problem.

Easily solved - either by bellini's plan - or the UK stays in the EEA/CU.

I'm pretty much done too.
I have had lots of interested conversations and interestingly had lots of people tell me why they've voted the way they have but not really interested in a remain view.

As far as I'm concerned if you're a leave voter sitting on your hands as no deal goes through then you are not at all patriotic.

when people will know who put them in the position they find themselves

Yeah, the Government.

You know, the ones who told lies (on both sides) throughout the campaign.

The ones who were so cocky that they didn't actually expect the nation to vote leave and so never actually had a plan, despite promising they did.

The ones who have been so busy in fighting and trying to get "one over" on each other that they've essentially waved goodbye to any possibility of a reasonable deal we ever had (if we had one).

Do you honestly think that the large majority of leavers would have voted leave had they known about the fuck up the Government was going to make of it?

Maybe if Remainers stopped blaming leavers for our Governments total lack of planning, incompetence and inaction over the last 2 years then there wouldn't be so much animosity and so many bridges that needed to be built.

If you still think leave is a good idea then I'll still think the same.

And it was obvious what was going to happen. It was obvious Cameron would resign and then the chaos that would follow.

Do you honestly think that the large majority of leavers would have voted leave had they known about the fuck up the Government was going to make of it?

They knew they were voting for the unknown, that there was no plan, and did it anyway. Fuck them.

Maybe if Remainers stopped blaming leavers for our Governments total lack of planning, incompetence and inaction over the last 2 years then there wouldn't be so much animosity and so many bridges that needed to be built.

Aye, it's remainers fault that bridges need to be built? Away and fling shite at the moon.

I'll say it again. The government have fucked it all up, yes. Because there wasn't a plan, BUT there was never a plan and I distinctly remember leavers jeering that the unknown was better than the status quo and that's what they were voting for.

Well this is it. Blaming the people who never wanted this, were sensible enough to vote against the unknown because we feared this and aren't fucking happy at the shitshow this has become demonstrates the absolute arrogance and fucking staggering lack of self awareness of so many.

You wonder why there's division?

Because we got dragged into this shitshow by a jeering mob determined they were right, and now they're still saying they're right and it's our fault.

Take that as far tae fuck as it'll go, and then keep fucking going.

Well said.

frangipani
The ones who were so cocky that they didn't actually expect the nation to vote leave and so never actually had a plan, despite promising they did.
I agree that DC etc never expected the nation to vote leave, but really don't remember anyone with any kind of authority promising they had any kind of plan. Can you link please? I do remember at the time being amazed that people voted for something that had no plan, so your assertion that those in power promised (at the time) that there was one, is news to me.

Leavers ran a competition about 10 years ago to develop a plan. No one could so they abandoned it and deleted all evidence from the internet just prior to the referendum campaign.They purposefully went into the referendum without one because they knew that any plan wouldn't stand up to scrutiny. Roland Smith an ex leaver has written extensively about it.
Lack of scrutiny got us here.

really don't remember anyone with any kind of authority promising they had any kind of plan. Can you link please?

Can you post a link to where they said they had no plan and we're just going to wing it?

Thought not.

Blaming the people who never wanted this

I've not seen or heard a single Leaver blaming Remainers (outside MN) for any of the current shit show......

Starter for 10.

If you Google roland Smith you'll find something.

If you google leave no plan, loads will come up from just after the referendum in 2016.

Hope that helps.

Vote Leave actual site

oops and another one

And another one

So where is the plan? Because two of those links are to the Vote Leave site and the other is the very pro Brexit Spectator.

If they couldn't find a plan, pre vote, who, exactly, did you expect to have a plan?

I’m a staunch remainer and to be honest I think we all deserve No Deal. We all deserve to get royally fucked in the arse for our stupidity. Leavers for voting leave, and remainers for being complacent and not explaining it better.

Can you post a link to where they said they had no plan and we're just going to wing it?
Thought not.
Snarky.

Who would have been stupid enough (on the leave campaign side) to say outright there was no plan? It was all 'we could do this, we could do that,' but most of the people who were saying it were campaigners for leave, rather than people with the authority to act on these fanciful promises. No plan was drawn up or put in front of the public at any time ever, as far as I'm aware.

No plan was ever put up. They actually said this was one of the reasons they won.

To be fair they did draw up a plan at one point but the consequences were so awful it was hidden before the referendum.

As individuals we can help the divide, ok so I and the Mr voted Remain, but I understand why people voted leave, for many being in the EU didn't seem to bring benefits or opportunities for their local area. I think some areas of largely remain voters were in a bubble of financial security and didn't think about areas which have lost their manufacturing and such like.

Saying this we all know more now and I am sure many leave voters didn't and don't want no deal (so please if this is you write to your MP it holds much more swing if leave voters say "please anything but no deal" than it does from remain voters). We just need to listen to each a bit more and try and find middle ground somehow, as individuals in society with the people we meet. We also need to admit we didn't know everything at the time of the referendum, we know more now and it's ok to admit that you were misinformed or just didn't really think the other way.

Saying all this I really don't think No Deal is going to fix anyone's problems at all. Apart from some ardent Brexiteers and they are a lost cause at the moment.

The only people who voted leave in my family are in a financial bubble. It's a bit of a myth that it's the financially secure - like the myth of the elite.

People's vote to include 2 parts: Leave or Remain and on the same ballot, everyone gets to choose between May's deal or No deal in case Leave wins again.

At least we can feel we have ownership over what is going to be the biggest constitutional change for a generation.

For Leavers who feel that the vote has already been had, surely you want to have your say as to whether we have May's deal or no deal? Why should the people not be able to tell the government how they want them to proceed?

Why should i want to heal any rift with people like Copper? with their goady fucking posts.

They ve fucked my retirement plans, caused food inflation, ruined my DD's chances of working in Europe like i did, wrecked the countries reputation, made the holidays to europe that millions of brits enjoy more expensive, cost jobs, lowered the status of the City of London - to the benefit of Dublin, Paris and Frankfurt....

oh and when it all goes tits up after 31/10, the Govt wont be going after the tossers who voted for this shit storm but instead will come after middle income earners and expect them to pay even more in taxes to support these feckless wonders.

And to top it all, we've now got a clown as PM, thanks to these idiots.

Anyone listen to Dominic Cummings who said that Tories don't care about the poor or the NHS ? well, he is advising Boris and Boris is blue to the core, you've put your faith in someone who will screw us all over.

Boris is blue to the core, you've put your faith in someone who will screw us all over.

Everything you said resonated jas but this especially. Yes, this is how I feel.

The people behind brexit (Farage, JRM, Bannon etc) aren't going to hang up their boots if no deal happens.

They have a horrible vision of how society should function, with very little support for the unfortunate or safety net. Brexit is just the start.

Whatever happens that lot will call it betrayal (if brexit doesn't happen, if it happens and is crap) they're nursing a sense of grievance which is really dangerous.

Jasjas perfect synopsis at 21.52 yesterday.

They ve fucked retirement plans, caused food inflation, ruined my DD's chances of working in Europe..wrecked the countries reputation, made the holidays to europe that millions of brits enjoy more expensive, cost jobs, lowered the status of the City ...

Why can't every single person in the U.K. see this.