How will this rift ever be healed?

[Bearbehind]

Emotions around Brexit are always going to run high but I genuinely don’t see how the divide can ever be bridged.

Anything less than no deal and the hardcore Leavers are never going to stop talking about breaches of democracy.

No deal and all the signs say it’s going to go to rat shit.

So where do we go?

Do you know that Weidel belongs to a Fascist party? Is that something you are happy with?

I think the only way the rift will be healed is if we leave and things do actually turn out fine and we do well from being outside of the EU. But obviously that’s a bloody ginormous if!

Peregina What does that mean though? Are you saying she’s morally flawed and therefore has no valid opinion?
You don’t need to be right wing to be a dick...outlovely socialist Labour party is accused of being anti Semitic.
She supports the EU, is a married lesbian and has held high level jobs around the world. She’s not misogynistic, sexist or homophobic.

This thread is about divide.

Once you start believing people are just one thing you start “othering”.

The rift won't be healed as far as I'm concerned. I won't forgive this needless vandalism.

MaxNormal Briliant. Because not forgiving the other side really works out well for everyone...

MaxNormal Briliant. Because not forgiving the other side really works out well for everyone...

So you're saying we should forgive Jacob Rees Mogg, Farage etc?

NI should be made a special economic area - like the free ports Johnson is talking about already but the whole of NI - and a border in the sea

How will border in the sea actually work? What will happen physically to goods arriving by sea when they reach the border in the sea?

@Tullow2016 by border in the sea, I mean that all the admin is done prior to arrival in mainland UK and checked when stuff come off the boat at a UK port. It can be scanned or other remote means. Tbe kind of thing that is "almost " an invisible border but not enough to be compliant with GFA so it can't be in NI.
And if some magic technology turns up that makes it invisible and seamless then, brilliant, let's have it. But it doesn't exist now which is why the backstop was suggested. And TM put a red line in that made it an all UK backstop and people started frothing.

That should read Britain, not UK.

I mean that all the admin is done prior to arrival in mainland UK and checked when stuff come off the boat at a UK port

That could work for goods that arrive from outside the Island of Ireland, but what about goods from NI to ROI? Do they have to go to the port in mainland Britain for checking and afterwards they can arrive at a port in ROI?

For non perishable goods might be okay, but what about food products?

@Tullow2016 that's why NI becomes a special economic zone. It can stay in tbe CU and single market to trade seamlessly with ROI. And, if it is clever, it invites business with tax exemptions, much like ROI does now.

There's always been a rift. Brexit has brought it bubbling to the surface but it's always been there.

I predict that actually we will just get on with things - we live in an incredibly stable country even with Brexit. Even if everything does go to shit as predicted, lives still have to be lived, bills still have to be paid, children will still need to go to school. The majority will carry on as normal regardless of what happens politically, they won't riot, they won't cause civil unrest, they probably won't even vote differently.

And, if it is clever, it invites business with tax exemptions, much like ROI does now

So NI and ROI eventually reunite as the are doing the same thing. Seems to be mixed signals from MN on this subject. Do ROI and NI want to reunite? Monster subject so maybe not possible to answer on MN?

This is where Scotland may well object on the basis that NI was part of the UK, but allowed to remain in the EU after all which is what majority of voters in NI wanted.

Scotland also voted in the majority (62%) to remain in EU in the 2016 referendum, but in 2014 they voted in the majority (55%) to remain in UK. Interestingly the 55% to remain in UK represents a larger number of voters as the turnout in 2014 was much higher.

@Tullow2016 , if it makes an economic success of being a special economic zone, it wouldn't want to change its status. My Irish mum always told me that reunification is an idea but not something ROI is in a tearing hurry over. Don't believe my anecdata, notice that the ROI gave up its claim on NI in its constitution via a national referendum (a properly organised one line they always do for constitutional change in ROI). At present, tbe demographic in NI is, what , just about a majority for staying in tbe UK but tbe strong Remain vote there showed a majority stability, peace and prosperity via GFA.
If the demographic changed in NI and they voted in a referendum (it has to be this way under GFA) for reunification, ROI is unlikely to say no. But tbe last 20 years should show everyone that peace and prosperity in NI is the priority. Hence my suggestion.

Scotland is not NI. It just isn't. Different history, different path to being in the UK. Ultimately it would be for Scotland to decide.

elprup Seriously?

I have no idea what we we are supposed to forgive the for. However do you really want a Northern Ireland situation where both side rake up history endlessly to justify why the other side are wrong ?
Or the miners and Thatcher. Because yes, if you were part of that community you were shalfted but did the anger and resentment achieve anything. If she closed them today in this age of climate change and anti fossil fuel it would be considered forward thinking and positive.

We should all be looking for ways to make change positively rather than making the other side “ pay” . That includes if Remain manage to get a second vote or a deal or whatever.

And the DUP hates GFA and would hate my idea. Let's be clear. So we are being held hostage by the DUP. Johnson will shaft them. The question is how hard.

The divide is mainly orchestrated by the minority on both sides who resort to abusive language to those who voted differently to them. These people need to grow up. By and large I think the majority of the country have accepted the result and just want it done so everyone can move on from it.

She’s not misogynistic, sexist or homophobic.

Maybe not, but her party is. They have close links to neo-nazism, and are far right.
Not really the kind of person I want to be in agreement with.

However do you really want a Northern Ireland situation where both side rake up history endlessly to justify why the other side are wrong?

How many times, on how many threads, do you need to be told to do some research? You understand nothing of NIrish history, nor of the impact the British government has had in NI/Ireland.
You're asking questions which are ignorant at best and goady at worst.

Why do you think the UK government has the right to rip up the GFA?

To answer the original question , I think it would take prominent Leavers to be held to account for the lies told, prosecutions and long sentences for those responsible.

"The divide is mainly orchestrated by the minority on both sides who resort to abusive language to those who voted differently to them. These people need to grow up. By and large I think the majority of the country have accepted the result and just want it done so everyone can move on from it."
If people try and conflate a Leave with No Deal, that's their problem. I will be respectful of Leave voters who are trying to make this work. I am trying myself as a Remain voter to come up with an acceptable Brexit - Border in the Sea/NI is a special economic zone.
But toddler tantrum No Dealers can fuck off with their attempts to make insanity mainstream.

if it makes an economic success of being a special economic zone, it wouldn't want to change its status

So NI would be in the UK, but with same benefits as being a member of the EU even though UK (of which NI is a member) would no longer be paying the membership costs?

Is that not the cake and eat it scenario that EU have already rejected?

If no deal happens and all border suggestions are binned and never re-visited, would the EU then construct a hard border of its own between NI and ROI?

If Tony Blair and Alistair Campbell are still walking free dispite their lies to get us into iraq then I doubt prominent leavers will be prosecuted.

Iraq is actually is interesting comparison. It deeply divided the country but as time has moved on the divide has been healed and consigned to history. I suspect the same will happen with Brexit once it's done.

If we go no-deal, I think each side will prove to be partly right.

Those coming into the job market will adapt, as every generation does, and communities will start to knit back together. It’ll take a while. Those who adapt sooner will come out of it better.
I hope whoever the govt is, they put money into community-based resources.