How will this rift ever be healed?

[Bearbehind]

Emotions around Brexit are always going to run high but I genuinely don’t see how the divide can ever be bridged.

Anything less than no deal and the hardcore Leavers are never going to stop talking about breaches of democracy.

No deal and all the signs say it’s going to go to rat shit.

So where do we go?

[VikVal]

@lonelyplanetmum

You're looking at levels since Brexit vote...go back and look at levels from the 70s onwards, the pounds has gradually decreased in value. The poverty levels have increased and the only reason we are not on the same level as an undeveloped country right now is the welfare system which has hugely increased. Almost 9 million families would be in absolute poverty if the welfare system stopped overnight! You need to start researching going back decades. It would shock you. This Brexit is a smokescreen to the hide the state of this country due to decades of establishment arrogance and betrayal.

[AuldAlliance]

Life will go on - it will be harder for some, easier for others and remain generally about the same for the vast majority, just like every other day.

This is quite an optimistic vision.
Leaving the EU doesn't mean life remains the same as before.
That's not apparent yet, because the UK hasn't left yet.
But cutting yourself suddenly adrift from your decades-long trading and strategic partner is not a simple feat, when everything has been bound up gradually and intricately over many years and no measures have been taken to mitigate the effects. Particularly when you are dependent on others for food, medicine, water purification, etc.

No Deal would mean that little remained the same for the vast majority, very fast. That's precisely why so much cash, produced by magic, is being flung at trying to address the very real, very dramatic changes for much of the population that it would swiftly produce. Fewer than 100 days to go...

[InTheHeatofLisbon]

How does training ex convicts how to copy keys benefit society?

Gives them a trade, gainful employment and a sense of self respect rather than being blocked from the employment market by their records and having little option but returning to crime to make money?

It's fairly obvious if you've got half a brain.

[Peregrina]

How does training ex convicts how to copy keys benefit society?

He's providing decent work. Most of us think that is a benefit.

[Tullow2016]

the owner of the Timpson's chain. Yes, he supports Leave but he is finding work for ex-convicts

How does training ex convicts how to copy keys benefit society?

[Peregrina]

The country hasn't fallen down.

I differ. The NHS is being run into the ground - which is why the Leave campaign was so successful with it's lets Give £350 million a week to the NHS. Education is in a mess with teachers strangled with bureaucracy instead of being able to get on with teaching, and starved of funds which is now being wasted on Brexit. The housing market is broken for many young people.

I agree that we can lay the blame at Westminster Governments. My post was specifically aimed at the 'stuff happens' poster - as though a crisis can be dealt with so glibly.

Now there is one Leaver I do respect - the owner of the Timpson's chain. Yes, he supports Leave but he is finding work for ex-convicts - so he's trying to put something back into society.

[Enb76]

Let's see you getting on with rebuilding the country.

The country hasn't fallen down. FFS, the hyberbole around all this is insane. What do the Chicken Littles do in life when they haven't a cause like Brexit to flap their wings about.

Life will go on - it will be harder for some, easier for others and remain generally about the same for the vast majority, just like every other day. Those on the edges will suffer, they always suffer and there is nowhere in the world where this is not true. I do not have the solution for that - some of those people though, they thought that leaving the EU was a good idea, force some sort of change in the face of what they see as the unrelenting burden of their suffering.

I voted Remain but I understand why people voted Leave - I do not hate, nor despise, nor blame them for their actions. Successive governments have done this, both Labour and Tory and all the shades of shite in between.

Now - god, I don't care - just please let something actually happen because the last three years have put me off all shades of politicians.

[Peregrina]

There was a miners strike in the early 1970s too, under Ted Heath.

a) Not everyone does survive
b) Why are we inflicting problems on ourselves that we need to survive? It's not as though any of these were an Act of God, like the Boxing Day tsunami which killed thousands and washed homes and livelihoods away. Those events, bar the rise of technology, could all have been handled differently if the will to do so had been there instead of choosing a belligerent confrontational approach.
c) For the stuff happens brigade -let's see you getting on with rebuilding the country.

[bellinisurge]

PS, I lived through all those events on your list @QueenBeee . They were shit.

[bellinisurge]

@QueenBeee , judging by the whining I read on a thread this week about there not being enough ice lollies in a supermarket in the heatwave, I'm not so sure.

And by the way WE DON'T HAVE TO BREXIT LIKE THIS.

[QueenBeee]

AAAaah well, there was no social media in the past to moan on, that probably helped.
There was the 3day week / electricity being cut off in 70s, the miners strike in them mid 80s, the Falklands war in the early 80s, rise of tech in 90s, banking crash in 2008, ongoing immigration issues - stuff happens, we survive.

[bellinisurge]

@Peregrina , apparently there will be some BIG ANNOUNCEMENT on NHS spending at the weekend. Which could be £2.1 BILLION bigger if they weren't wasting it on no Deal preparations.
Still, promising all sorts of shit to shut people up us kind of Johnson's playbook.

[Peregrina]

How about fulfilling their promise and spend it on the NHS? Boris Johnson is now ideally placed to make that pledge a reality.

[bellinisurge]

@VikVal , £2.1BILLION has been announced as what they are spending on No Deal preparations. Could you perhaps suggest something better they could spend the money on and , instead of jizzing it down the toilet , announce that they will make NI a special economic zone and put the border in the sea. We could have an orderly Brexit tomorrow on those terms.

[twofingerstoEverything]

Frangipani I've not seen or heard a single Leaver blaming Remainers (outside MN) for any of the current shit show......

Brexit Party MEP says it's remainers' fault pound has dropped

[lonelyplanetmum]

The value of GBP has been plummeting

Err sorry - does anyone seriously deny that the reason the Pound is falling is due to the Brexit vote?

As for the shocking levels of poverty (due to successive U.K. government policy) every single proper report says Brexit has already increased this. Look at what the Joseph Rowntree foundation say.

www.jrf.org.uk/file/51636/download?token=g0mzywq0&filetype=briefing

[Peregrina]

.....the conditions they were in thanks to decades of establishment arrogance to hammer the British working class without consequence, not on reading newspapers

How does that explain the Leave vote from the comfortably off in the south of England, who in the short term at least will have enough money to ride out the initial impact of Brexit?

[VikVal]

@lonelyplanetmum

Your holiday examples aside which tbh I'm sick and tired of hearing from the middle class, everything else was happening before Brexit was even mentioned! Labour utterly decimated pensions when they were in power, the city status is not lowered it's still the financial capital for many many reasons and will continue to be, cost jobs?...jobs have been stagnating in real term wage growth for past 20 years and employee rights worse now than 20 years ago mostly due to the vast labour pool at the low to mid end of the jobs market that has created a huge level of employer arrogance. Food inflation has been happening for decades. Cost of living has been rising for decades. The value of GBP has been plummeting and poverty has been rising for the past 40 years. They want to blame everything on Brexit, but do your own research, the country has been going downhill long before Brexit was even mentioned. If hadn't, Brexit wouldn't even be an issue right now.

[VikVal]

The country was already divided along many lines all engineered. That is why Brexit result was it was. The problem is too many were ignorant of why people voted leave which was based on their experiences and the conditions they were in thanks to decades of establishment arrogance to hammer the British working class without consequence, not on reading newspapers.

Things can only improve in general, when people start to communicate to each other without fear and in a respectable manner and we all need to be more objective. Politics is a waste of time anyway it's all show, the news media is intentionally divisive and so called experts subjective and biased towards their bank balance rather than objective analysis. Abandoning both is a start.

Things can change but we must change.

[lonelyplanetmum]

Jasjas perfect synopsis at 21.52 yesterday.

They ve fucked retirement plans, caused food inflation, ruined my DD's chances of working in Europe..wrecked the countries reputation, made the holidays to europe that millions of brits enjoy more expensive, cost jobs, lowered the status of the City ...

Why can't every single person in the U.K. see this.

[Cyclemad222]

The people behind brexit (Farage, JRM, Bannon etc) aren't going to hang up their boots if no deal happens.

They have a horrible vision of how society should function, with very little support for the unfortunate or safety net. Brexit is just the start.

Whatever happens that lot will call it betrayal (if brexit doesn't happen, if it happens and is crap) they're nursing a sense of grievance which is really dangerous.

[InTheHeatofLisbon]

Boris is blue to the core, you've put your faith in someone who will screw us all over.

Everything you said resonated jas but this especially. Yes, this is how I feel.

[jasjas1973]

Why should i want to heal any rift with people like Copper? with their goady fucking posts.

They ve fucked my retirement plans, caused food inflation, ruined my DD's chances of working in Europe like i did, wrecked the countries reputation, made the holidays to europe that millions of brits enjoy more expensive, cost jobs, lowered the status of the City of London - to the benefit of Dublin, Paris and Frankfurt....

oh and when it all goes tits up after 31/10, the Govt wont be going after the tossers who voted for this shit storm but instead will come after middle income earners and expect them to pay even more in taxes to support these feckless wonders.

And to top it all, we've now got a clown as PM, thanks to these idiots.

Anyone listen to Dominic Cummings who said that Tories don't care about the poor or the NHS ? well, he is advising Boris and Boris is blue to the core, you've put your faith in someone who will screw us all over.

[MaximusHeadroom]

People's vote to include 2 parts: Leave or Remain and on the same ballot, everyone gets to choose between May's deal or No deal in case Leave wins again.

At least we can feel we have ownership over what is going to be the biggest constitutional change for a generation.

For Leavers who feel that the vote has already been had, surely you want to have your say as to whether we have May's deal or no deal? Why should the people not be able to tell the government how they want them to proceed?

[Theworldisfullofgs]

The only people who voted leave in my family are in a financial bubble. It's a bit of a myth that it's the financially secure - like the myth of the elite.