Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: On An Election Footing

966 replies

RedToothBrush · 25/07/2019 16:22

Boris Johnson has set out his strategy.

He is challenging remain Tories to put their money where their mouth is, or to shut up.

His majority, soon to be just 1, is fragile but he intends to tough it out.

His Cabinet, is to all intents and purposes an ERG take over of the Tory Party, not unlike the Momentum take over of the Labour Party. And Johnson is looking to purge the party of its liberal wing, whilst pretending that he is liberal to make it acceptable to long term loyal Tories who might still waiver and merely vote for the rosette or like the veneer of respectability.

It has been made clear to Tory MPs that they will have to sign up to a No Deal Strategy should a snap election be called - or face the prospect of deselection. Disloyality will not be tolerated as Hunt's Cabinet backers all found out when they were sacked rather than be allowed to resign as Grayling was.

Instead Johnson reaped his revenge bringing back quitters and disgraced MPs as a deliberate 'fuck you' to moderates and remainers.

His message is clear and made all the clearer by the appointment of Dominic Cummings.

Today the Treasurery opened the piggie bank and told all departments to prepare for no deal. That is what is going to happen.

Parliament can not stop no deal. Johnson will drive it through regardless, even if its technically illegal. The default of no deal makes it an impossible juggernaught to stop without triggering a GE before the 31st October.

Technically speaking there are just 3 parliamentary days left this can be done.

And a GE is no guarentee of stopping no deal anyway. Cummings coming on board spells it out. Its a campaign strategy to reinvigourate the Leave Campaign and make all the promises that were made before. Of course there is no way of implimenting any of these before 31st October, so they just sound nice and people will believe them because they want to believe them. They want to trust and have hope for the future.

Yet with no trade deals and third party status, and crippling gridlock at ports and extra red tape for exporters and importers to deal with, it is inevitable that the economy will take a big hit. And Johnson's promises are expensive. His £39 billion he wants to withhold, is peanuts in the scheme of things and given what he is proposing.

The plan might sound nice, but it doesn't actually add up.

If we want a deal we will STILL have to sign up to conditions that Brussels sets out EVEN IF we no deal.

Meanwhile the US is ready and waiting to fleece us, because we aren't prepared to admit this and are too proud to see that this is a better option than have corporate American feast on the bones of the British economy.

Human Rights and Workers Rights are very much in the cross hairs with this. Health and Safety standards that have been set by London and then imposed on the EU will be burnt.

All the while the EU will be blamed for our own folly.

The worst thing is, people will actually buy it too.

Things are going to get a hell of a lot worse in this country, not because we lack optimism and hope, but because our egos are too big and we have been too idealist rather than recognising very real obstacles and finding ways to overcome than rather than just trying to ignore them. We will find out all those Paragraph Cs in good time the hard way because of the lack of attention to detail.

PFI and outsourcing will look like minor hiccups when the shit hits the fan.

I do hope that the puritians of the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats and the Remain Referendum Campaign are happy. This is also their mess. They have spent 3 years naval gazing and still don't understand nor know how to respond. This is where a General Election becomes a very real danger because they are clueless as to how to combat a reunited Leave campaign.

Be careful what you wish for going forward.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
BigChocFrenzy · 26/07/2019 14:24

Brexit: Pelosi warns UK not to jeopardise Belfast Agreement

It'll have to be an NI-backstop only, but there will be a backstop
BJ & much of the ERG won't mind; the DUP would be incandescent - hence one reason for the push to a GE ?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/brexit-pelosi-warns-uk-not-to-jeopardise-belfast-agreement-1.3967768#.XTrCPSJHvCA.twitter

US congress ‘will not endorse trade deal’ with Britain if peace agreement is weakened
.....
Brexiteers have argued Britain will be in a position to strike a trade deal with the United States when it leaves the European Union.

But any trade agreement must be endorsed by Congress.

Ms Pelosi said during a visit to London in April that there would be “no chance whatsoever” of a US-UK trade deal if the Northern Ireland peace agreement was weakened by Brexit

BigChocFrenzy · 26/07/2019 14:31

Boris Johnson urged to dismiss aide who called far-right activist a hero

When we demand that Labour root out anti-semites, we should also demand the Tories root out their far right Islamophobes:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/26/boris-johnson-adviser-chloe-westley-far-right-activist-anne-marie-waters

Chloe Westley, No 10’s social media chief, praised Anne Marie Waters in 2016 tweet

Waters co-founded the UK branch of the anti-Islam group Pegida alongside Robinson,
has links to former BNP memberss^
and has described Islam as “evil”.

dreichhighlands · 26/07/2019 14:33

Interestingly that Pelosi speech was reported by CNN and they report almost no UK or Brexit news.
Giving N Ireland an economic advantage however sensible for NI will only empower Sturgeon more in Scotland.

DGRossetti · 26/07/2019 14:33

The DUP are going to be as shafted as Remainers have been. They tried sucking up to the tit of Brexit and will only have burned lips to show for it.

Seems there are some shards of comfort to be found, if you know where to look.

Be curious to know what the DUPs election platform will be given the hope from Tory central will be that they become an irrelevance.

Maybe some kind remainers from this thread could offer them some support in how to deal with being totally ignored by the party in power ?

tobee · 26/07/2019 14:33

Yes I thought Biffen must have risen from his grave just to push through a no deal @Oakenbeach!

Google tells me he died in 2007.

Westminstenders: On An Election Footing
QueenOfThorns · 26/07/2019 14:47

Thanks for the tomato suggestions. I will need to begin Project Defrost Freezer sooner than planned to make sure there’s some space!

Peregrina · 26/07/2019 14:53

I wonder if sprinkling some foreign words in was like holy water and vampires ?
Diolch i Dduw

Sarahlou63 · 26/07/2019 15:13

Apologies if it's been mentioned already but does anyone feel it's ominous that BJ is beefing up police numbers ASAP?

BigChocFrenzy · 26/07/2019 15:13

Blimey, the No Deal vampires are posting their rubbish on the other thread instead:

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eureferendumm2016/3647943-Germanys-economy-in-freefall?msgid=88841179

RedToothBrush · 26/07/2019 15:28

The DUP are going to be as shafted as Remainers have been.

Hopefully. But yes I think that will be the gift of Johnson.

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 26/07/2019 15:38

Apologies if it's been mentioned already but does anyone feel it's ominous that BJ is beefing up police numbers ASAP?

Hmm

as I commented on another thread, it all sounds nice, but quite aside from the fact it takes at least a couple of years to train a policeperson (I am happy to be corrected on that, by more knowledgable posters) there's the entire infrastructure needed to support "20,000" extra officers.

From support staff through to court officials, lawyers barristers and judges. So until we hear about the required number of those staff being recruited, colour me sceptical.

Oh, here's the caveat ....

Mr Johnson said he wanted the recruitment - which will be overseen by a new national policing board - to be completed over the next three years.

Peregrina · 26/07/2019 15:54

Mr Johnson said he wanted the recruitment - which will be overseen by a new national policing board - to be completed over the next three years.

By which time he could well be out of office, and some one else - a nice LibDem/SNP/PC/Green/Rump of Labour coalition in power and taking all the credit. Karma.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 26/07/2019 15:58

I wonder where they will put all of these new police officers given they've closed so many police stations. Do we have 20,000 people ready waiting to become police officers?

BigChocFrenzy · 26/07/2019 16:01

BeLeave !

BJ has the Magic Infrastructure Tree as well as the Magic Money Tree

Eyewhisker · 26/07/2019 16:06

Anyone else think that the sudden appearance of prolific leavers suggests that a GE is looming? It’s reminiscent of the prolific leavers during the referendum campaign who disappeared immediately afterwards.

RedToothBrush · 26/07/2019 16:07

Yes 20,000 police will just magically appear overnight and be ready for no deal problems.

Is this like how they promised to recruit more midwives.

I think its in 2011 they identified there was a shortage, so they launched a campaign to train more. But there was still a shortage of actual jobs for midwives to go to as the hospitals didn't have the budget for them. Not only this, but despite training there were still more midwives leaving the profession than joining it. They couldn't retain staff.

I think the drive to recruit midwives has been relaunched in a blaze of publicity twice since then, and there is STILL not enough to meet the level that is seen as the basic requirement.

This is in part because people can't afford to train and because there is a shortage of training places available too.

You can't just hire police. Not without thinking about pay, conditions, training, actual budgets for policing.

Anyone who says, starting from tomorrow we'll get a shed load more police, is just doing it for the column inches, not because they've actually given it thought and have a comprehensive plan and strategy to improve policing.

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 26/07/2019 16:12

I wondered that too @Eyewhisker .

Mistigri · 26/07/2019 16:13

Anyone else think that the sudden appearance of prolific leavers suggests that a GE is looming? It’s reminiscent of the prolific leavers during the referendum campaign who disappeared immediately afterwards.

They're testing the message. See reports of multiple different ads on Facebook.

I think it is helpful to avoid arguing - which gives them the information they need to construct counter-messaging - but to just pick up on blatant untruths or idiocies and pick them to pieces in short factual posts.

They get really annoyed when you do this.

Emilyontmoor · 26/07/2019 16:15

Ah but he is promising police but much like Brexit he isn’t saying what sort of policemen? The proper hard policemen are recruited via a rigorous selection procedure (they would not for instance take anyone who has not already had some life experience ) and take years to train with courses at expensive colleges covering all manner of process and procedure. However we already have the cheaper softer Community Support Police Officers and why not go even cheaper and softer?

Oakenbeach · 26/07/2019 16:15

Britain Elects@britainelects

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 25% (-)
LDEM: 23% (+3)
LAB: 19% (-2)
BREX: 17% (-2)
GRN: 9% (+1)

via @YouGov, 23 - 24 Jul, Chgs. w/ 17 Jul

Any idea why this isn’t on the BritainElects, or any as far as I can see, website?

Peregrina · 26/07/2019 16:20

However we already have the cheaper softer Community Support Police Officers and why not go even cheaper and softer?

My thoughts too.

Peregrina · 26/07/2019 16:22

Westminster voting intention:

It all depends on where the votes are though.

DGRossetti · 26/07/2019 16:24

You can't just hire police. Not without thinking about pay, conditions, training, actual budgets for policing.

And if you don't think about "pay, conditions, training, actual budgets for policing" ?

I suspect when we dig into the detail, we'll discover words like best endeavours, aspirations coupled with "existing budgets" and "increased PCSO support"

I suspect there will also be a quiet reprioritisation of police activity.

And given that Boris wants to make it a terrorist offence to be an anti-hunt supporter, I'm going to hazard a guess how the new officers will be spending their time.

LonelyTiredandLow · 26/07/2019 16:27

A friend of mine said yesterday she thought Cummins was the Steve Bannon of UK. I'm not inclined to believe this - he isn't a people person and seems to just have an issue with being told he can't work in certain areas (mainly due to being rude and egotistical). He harbours a grudge. I understand why Bannon, a racist consumerist who wants USA to be the 'best' would want to break up EU as they don't benefit from it directly. Cummings however doesn't seem very long sighted and seems to be picking off institutions that have given him the cold shoulder.

Interestingly my remain Labour (v. pro Corbyn) friend thinks he will be out within 6 months and Keir will take over just in time for a coalition after a GE. Interesting times indeed.

Personally I'm still confused how posters supporting Leave can be singing Johnson's praises when Farage himself doesn't trust him and has stayed quiet as a mouse while he looses out on seats. Apparently there is a (possibly too hopeful rumour) that BJ is getting the ERG out of the Tories somehow by putting them up for annihilation. Not sure how that can be achieved in 98 days...maybe something to do with BJ's demands of EU negotiations which are never going to happen and the fail of the WA coming back meaning we now seem more likely to leave with No Deal? He's backed us into more of a corner than before by openly saying WA is off and only new negotiations will be considered, esp considering EU have said for months that won't happen.