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Brexit
Original poster

The NI border issue can never be resolved can it?

458 replies

Bearbehind · 14/07/2019 20:39

We would have left by now if is wasn’t for the border issue in NI and I genuinely can’t see a positive outcome.

If, 20 years after the GFA, peace is still so fragile a border is incompressible and any other option basically breaks up the union - how can it ever end well?

OP posts:
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9
pallisers · 15/07/2019 00:25

I mean exactly as I said - the Border should be 'sorted' by the people who are 'sorting' it now - the RoI/NI/UK. There isn't currently an EU border-force and the UN (thankfully) have no need to be there. So, is there any particular reason that we can't keep it a peaceful, open border irrespective of Brexit?

Do you have even a basic primary school understanding of what a border between countries means? Do they not teach basic geography in UK schools?

HateIsNotGood · 15/07/2019 00:26

No, not on glue, but I do recognize that my 'sensibilities' don't make much sense to most on here. Do you not see any part of the points I'm raising freename? Really? If you truly can't then the glue must be in your eyes, your ears and your mouth. Can you really not see that killing your own people, in your own island and elsewhere isn't 'right' in any way at all?

That the 'idea' that if the UK leaves the EU some people will go and kill some other people because, well, you tell me why some Irish people want to go kill some other Irish people?

That, my friend, is for you to work out and explain to the likes of me. Meanwhile, do you really mind if the UK leaves the EU? Wouldn't it be preferable if we did? Why keep such an 'heinous' country such as the UK in your 'bloc' - isn't it more pro-Irish to welcome our removal from your latest 'alliance'?

pallisers · 15/07/2019 00:28

Jesus you are stupid.

HateIsNotGood · 15/07/2019 00:31

Well as the insults are rolling in now, I'll say adieu. Green Isle was used as a pp used it - my personal preference is for the Island of Ireland - no doubt causing offence to someone somewhere.

Much as I prefer insults to killing, torturing and maiming...I'll leave you now to vent your spleens at your imaginary adversaries.

DioneTheDiabolist · 15/07/2019 00:42

Hate, your points make no sense whatsoever.Confused

well, you tell me why some Irish people want to go kill some other Irish people?
Why don't you tell us why some UK citizens want to go kill some other UK citizens in the UK? How much of your nearly 60 years have you actually lived here?

JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 15/07/2019 00:44
Shock

No words. Just.....none.

Isthisafreename · 15/07/2019 00:55

@HateIsNotGood - but I do recognize that my 'sensibilities' don't make much sense to most on here.

I guess that's a start.

Do you not see any part of the points I'm raising freename? Really? If you truly can't then the glue must be in your eyes, your ears and your mouth.

I can see from the "points" you're making that you have no understanding of anything going on in Ireland, north or south.

Can you really not see that killing your own people, in your own island and elsewhere isn't 'right' in any way at all?

Who said anything about killing anyone? And to suggest that I might condone killing is insulting, but I assume you're well aware of that.

The issue with the border is that is contravenes the GFA as it prevents the continued operation of the cross-border co-operation that was implemented as part of the GFA.

mineallmine · 15/07/2019 00:55

O sweet Jesus. You think you've heard it all and then this.

GreyTS · 15/07/2019 00:59

@hate Wtf was that all about? Some kind of thinly veiled denunciation of all us Irish as terrorists and murderers? I tell you nothing fucking changes does it, you lot caused all this trouble and now you're trying to blame us for it? Fuck right off for yourself you uneducated twit

TheEmpireNoMore · 15/07/2019 05:16

Wonder if reason Boris is talking about 20,000 more police is in anticipation of troubles connected to the border issue?

bellinisurge · 15/07/2019 05:32

"The EU didn't create GFA" .... er.... actually it was heavily involved in creating it.

LifeMovedOn · 15/07/2019 06:17

GFA was created in 1998. Long before Bexit became a subject. So no provision made in the event UK voted to leave the EU.

GFA either overlooked when referendum was called and before Article 50 was started or seen as irrelevant as NI is elsewhere?

bellinisurge · 15/07/2019 06:39

HateIsNotGood GFA brought actual peace-not the pie-in- the-sky nihilistic nonsense about everyone loving the UK and doing what it wants to make Brexit easier. Actual peace. Odd that you don't think it important enough to take proper care of.
I've suggested a practical solution that allows us to Brexit and save GFA. Rather than just waffling on about some mythical crap where everyone does what you want.

DtPeabodysLoosePants · 15/07/2019 07:00

Good god. What have I just read?

RuggerHug · 15/07/2019 07:22

Hate, is the british government systematically killing Irish citizens 'killing their own people' is your view, or might that be a bit....off?

Why am I even trying. Look, you have access to information since you're using the internet now. Look up Irish media and how it's explained, shooting the darkness and anything that has border and RTE in a YouTube search bar might be a start.

Another poster upthread (sorry forgotten the name now) said she voted remain, knew very little about the issues but took it upon herself to learn. That's always an option. Instead of 'why is everyone not agreeing with me?' maybe ask yourself 'what am I not seeing or aware of that they are?".

SistemaAddict · 15/07/2019 07:38

That was me. I learnt a great deal and was appalled. I hope we can move on from the past although with such a long history it will take a long, long time. I don't think today's generations of British should be blamed for the issues. It was the government at the time .

bellinisurge · 15/07/2019 07:52

No is blaming the present generation. Just asking them not to flush this fantastic achievement down the toilet.

SistemaAddict · 15/07/2019 07:58

Perhaps not but there is quite a bit of anti-English/British sentiment on mumsnet at times from Irish people.

TheEmpireNoMore · 15/07/2019 08:09

Perhaps not but there is quite a bit of anti-English/British sentiment on mumsnet at times from Irish people

History can't be denied, but some seem to forget and move on faster than others.

USA nuked Japan in WWII, but they have done a lot of trade between each other since.

EU's origin was France and Germany deciding to trade between themselves rather than go to war.

Can't comment on Wales, but Scotland and Ireland seem to think they live in the shadow of England?

SistemaAddict · 15/07/2019 08:17

No, history cannot he denied, I agree. I think the threat to the GFA is a threat to moving forward as well as the actual threat to the peace process itself. Westminster are arrogant, that much is clear.

bellinisurge · 15/07/2019 08:25

@Bercows I'm half Irish half British so I don't know what you mean. Telling the truth isn't being mean to British people. And frankly, there's a lot of shit flying around blaming Irish people for putting a "fake" Confused obstacle to sacred Brexit.

bellinisurge · 15/07/2019 08:26

Scotland and Ireland seem to think they live in the shadow of England?

  1. Ireland is a separate country.
  2. Have you spoken to actual Scottish people?
TooTrueToBeGood · 15/07/2019 08:34

Perhaps not but there is quite a bit of anti-English/British sentiment on mumsnet at times from Irish people.

I wonder why that might be. So many examples but to use a couple that clarify that Irish persecution by the British is not purely in the history books. Look at how gerrymandering impacted Irish communities in NI. Control the local authorities and you control social housing, school budgets, infrastructure investment, the police and all local authority employment. That control was used ruthlessly by unionists to the severe detriment of Catholic/republican communities right up to recent times. Look at Bloody Sunday. That was not an accident. The specifics of the day may not have been planned in detail but you do not deploy a regiment of shock combat troops, world renowned for their aggression, to keep the peace.

As to the buck stopping with the British governments of the days, sorry but we are a democracy. In a democracy the electorate are accountable for the actions of their governments, whether we like it or not.

For the record, I'm a Glaswegian protestant. If the facts as I understand them compel me to have a great deal of empathy for the Irish in this debate those facts must be pretty damn conclusive. And let's be clear, if the fragile peace in NI collapses there will be no winners, everyone living there will pay the price and as human beings they deserve better.

Cutantrim · 15/07/2019 09:04

That the 'idea' that if the UK leaves the EU some people will go and kill some other people because, well, you tell me why some Irish people want to go kill some other Irish people?

What? What? What the fuckity fuck???

Eh?

TheEmpireNoMore · 15/07/2019 09:13

1. Ireland is a separate country

I have worked with people from both NI and ROI. Impression I get is that those from ROI want a united Ireland a bit more than NI? However, I have not lived or worked in either NI or ROI.

  1. Have you spoken to actual Scottish people?

Lived in Scotland for several years. A regular subject, particularly among younger persons, was how the English stole their North Sea Oil and they should have gone it alone decades ago. Older persons seem to be more in favour remaining a member of the UK.