All threads in brexit seem to anti brexit? Mn is usually balanced... Were are pro b threads?

[Knittedjimmychoos]

Looking for some lighter brexit relief by fellow leavers... Every thread I've glanced at seems to be dominated by renainers?

Is there any space for leaver on here?

Just interested... I wanted to chat...

Don't worry, some bloke in the Far East who gets off on annoying women will be along in a minute to tell Leavers how brilliant they are.

Nighty-night belle - you've got work tomorrow - luckily I don't as I've worked all weekend. Jas wtf are you on about with your just like Bojo rhetoric? Maybe it's your bedtime too.

@Bercows it probably helps that my leave vote was based on my thoughts and opinions about the EU governance and parliament as an entity. About the reach bit seeks to achieve and about how the procedures it has in place aren't to the best benefit of individual nations. I knew leaving would be hard and would never be pain free. Seeing how painful has changed my mind about the 'better evil'. Frankly our government have shown themselves to be so incapable I think we need the EU! Sadly I can't go back in time and change my vote.

These threads don't achieve a lot.

People are free to choose how they vote and are not required to give their reasons. Voting by secret ballot has been in place since 1800s.

As some posters have mentioned it is possible to change your mind in a subsequent vote. That for me is a democratic process.

Minor but interesting point... So far I think I have seen 3 people on this thread, saying they regret voting for Brexit, and wished that (with hindsight) they had not.

So far, I have not seen any people who voted remain, say that they had wished they had voted for leave.

Wholly un-scientific, but if people have changed their minds, and they want to have a re-vote (as I think Rees-Mogg, David Davies, Farage etc. have all said), it would seem to be silly not to do so...

The quote by Mogg shows a distinct failure to understand the magnitude of what leaving the EU means.
So far it has taken 3 years, and the UK hasn't decided what it WANTS.
So far, many have said they want 'out' but have not then specified where it is out TO. OUT is not a destination, in the same way as standing outside your front door is (not really) a destination.
On 31 Oct that signifies the START of negotiations with the EU and the world at large. Meaningful negotiations that are ratified and enforced will take an absolute minimum of another 3, 4 or more years, and that assumes the UK has decided where the destination of 'OUT' is.
How much the UK will be pulled apart by then is anybody's guess.

The JRM quote is from 2011 - I assume he is referring to referendums on the Lisbon Treaty - not the 'leave', 'remain' referendum of 2016.

This says the JRM quote was very explicitly in a debate about UK referenda on membership in EU. He was literally addressing nothing else.

Since he said it on floor of HoC, The quote is easily found in Hansaard.

Funny how the copy and paste queen couldn't find that.

They used to publish a Mumsnet census which showed that Mumsnetters are more likely to be well off and the well off benefit most from the EU so that’s going to happen.

Incidentally recent data showed that since the referendum wages for the lowest 25% have increased at a faster rate than since the new EU states joined. On the other hand the wages of the top 10% have been much slower growth than expected.

I doesn’t take a genius to work out a lot of bosses are having to pay themselves less because workers are demanding more now there isn’t a constant supply of very cheap labour to rely on.

I imagine there’s quite bit of handwringing and pear clutching on here about gardeners or cleaners asking for a bit more dough might mean a less affluent lifestyle themselves.

Except the level if immigration has remained constant since the referendum.

Wages for the lowest paid have risen fast since 2016 because of increases to the minimum wage. In fact the suspected increases to wages that go.with low unemployment haven't occured. Link to that information and I think you'll find it doesn't show what you think.

The Migration advisory comittee state that the increase in inflation due to the falling pound had a bigger impact on the real wages of the lowest paid than EU immigration had cumulatively sincr 2004

Incidentally recent data showed that since the referendum wages for the lowest 25% have increased at a faster rate than since the new EU states joined. On the other hand the wages of the top 10% have been much slower growth than expected

mmmmm nothing to do with above inflation increases in min wage then?
However its not great.... fullfact.org/economy/how-have-wages-changed/
On the other hand, our local council cannot recruit enough care workers for a growing elderly population, there just isn't the workers out there.

And does it even need saying - we haven't left yet.

We might all need to go out clutching pears in the field in the future, as we won't have enough workers to pick even half the fruit & veg crops we currently grow.

We grow raspberries... they take ages to harvest. damn I forgot to employ a gardener to do that for me

There was a programme on radio the other day ... farming today? Talking about how in the 50s/60s there would be throngs of women pushing prams that would go out to the fields to harvest fruit in the day. Having walked 5 miles each way for the privilege.

That.world.is.gone.

Today, the labour can't be rounded up with a minibus from town corners, that model doesn't work. Now the harvesters need to be living on site so they can harvest at dawn (some agricultural reason why dawn); there is a work shift in the afternoon sorting fruit into punnets. The accommodation is dependent on the dawn harvest work but the afternoon shift is optional; the venue was always short-staffed in afternoons so senior staff often had to stay longer to get the sorting done.

Could cut benefits, I suppose. Encourage more people to go live in seasonal agricultural caravans.

Could cut benefits, I suppose. Encourage more people to go live in seasonal agricultural caravans.
Looking at the many many people on benefits around here,
they are too old, too ill, too unfit to do field labour
and if you take parents to work in the fields, what happens to their children?

Kids of 15 - 21 are still in education so they are not a source of cheap labour any more

there are many more old people than there ever were before - looking after them soaks up a lot of the indigenous labour supply

There is a post-brexit scheme granting visas for agricultural work. It's already had a very successful pilot and will be expanded next year.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45429397

farmerjules I think one daffodil farm in Cornwall will use up about 5% of that allocation.
The horticultural sector needs about 80,000 workers, so that 2,500 isn't going to go far, when 90% of seasonal workers come from Eastern Europe - especially if they can only stay for six months!

@sionnachbeag

If that comment about "The cut and paste queen" was aimed at me, a bit wide of the mark (wrong gender for a start...).

Of course.... if one cannot argue against a point, argue against the person ("Ad hominem"). Generally considered slightly above "Whataboutism?" and lower than breaking Godwins Law (did I just do that, by referencing the law itself....? Hmmm).

The comment from David Davies was from 2012, yet it remains valid today. Or would you say that is also no longer valid?

The leavers seem to have some idea that the rest of the world will 'play nice' when the UK leaves.

Because they seem to inhabit a fantasy world where Johnny Foreigner shits themselves at the sight of a Union Jack, and will become fawning wrecks as long as we shout loud enough and tell them what’s what..... all because we are “Great” Britain. It’s pathetic.

It wasn't aimed at you. It was at clav who is amazing at google searches and finding anything that she thinks backs up her point (often wrongly) but wasn't able to find a link to back her point above.

Statistically the vote was close. In RL I know both remainers and leavers yet on MN remainers dominate the boards.
It's an interesting phenomenon because it isn't reflected across other social media platforms or BTL on media websites. If I worked at MNHQ
(or if I was studying politics and online discourse) I'd be interested in why it was the case.

As far as i remember, it was fairly evenly split before amd after the referendum.

Leavers gave up because their points got taken apart, or they ended up being opposed to each others version of leave. Those that thought it was one in the eye for the establishment soon became quiet too.

That hasn't happened anywhere else on social media or BTL sionna so unless you're seriously suggesting MNers are the best remainer debaters anywhere then there is something else influencing how the discussion occurs or doesn't occur here.

but btl commenters tend to comment on individual articles, not continue to discuss the issues of the day broadly.

As I said, it was equally split before and after the referendum, but has become less so over time. Many other forums have become this way.

This despite the fact I have said I am in favour of the millions who have come in from the EU to live and work here, but because I have said I am unhappy about free movement of criminal gangs from Eastern Europe.

The UK could have put restrictions on immigration from the UK- they chose not to.
Leaving will not stop criminal gangs entering the country, but it will make it harder to identify them.