Westminstenders: Johnson v Stewart

[RedToothBrush]

Debate time.

Just read that Mark Field's boss is Jeremy Hunt ! Going to be interesting questions for both of them tomorrow, that footage will go viral.

@derxa Many people in different situations to yours don't think any amount of "sorting out after Brexit" would help them:

It depends whether you are in a business that can survive after Brexit,
or whether you work for an employer that would relocate, or might go broke.

2 microbusinesses I used to use have closed, stating it was because of the devaluation after the ref
Some MNers have posted they or their DPs have already lost their jobs over Brexit;
others expect to if Brexit happens

There are e.g. scientists and researchers who will lose / have lost EU funding - the UK was the largest recipient of these - and would have to find new jobs / move abroad

Then of course, there are pp desperately worried about retaining access to essential medication and devices

and those already struggling - e.g. disabled - who are on fixed incomes and couldn't cope with higher food prices

A good chunk of "softer" Remainers would have settled for the WA,
hoping sanity would prevail during extended transitions and we'd end up in a Norway++ type Brexit

However, most Leavers won't accept anything but the purest Brexit fantasy they are still being promised by the ERG

It is possible that the EU would agree to cosmetic language changes to the backstop, which with a new flowery PD would enable Boris to get WA Mk II passed

More likely, the DUP still won't agree - because the flowery language won't fool them that the backstop is unchanged

We would end up with BJ either calling a GE

• and risk losing the PM job he's been scheming for the last 15 years -

or just going for No Deal so he can swan about being PM for a while longer

I think Johnstone is really going to to struggle. 20 hour days, protocol to follow, back to back meetings. He won’t know what has hit him.

How long before he has a stroke?

Bloody hell, if that's how Field treats a woman at a public event, knowing it's being filmed by the media ....

Isn't that assault ?

BJ will be the same chaotic lazy-arsed playboy and leave all the work to others

People will be shocked how much worse things can get than under May, who at least put the hours in and tried her best

Yeah I reckon.

Even assault and battery.

Zaghari-Ratcliffe's husband calls Boris Johnson a security risk

He is on hunger strike outside the Iranian Embassy in London,
in sympathy with his wife who is in hunger strike in an Iranian prison

Maybe Ratcliffe should spend a couple of days outside BJ's house, since his "piffle" got her the longer sentence

No one there objected to that manhandling

I've been to umpteen scientific conferences, some very interesting,
but if a peaceful woman protestor was manhandled like that, I'd get up and stand by them so he didn't do anything worse

twitter.com/sandbach/status/1141797475554136064?s=21

Barely is the ink dry on the results and the dark ops begin. This from a male conservative MP to me as I sit on the train home. #completewankspangle

It's almost as if the tories are trying to loose their majority

BigChoc yes. It's appalling. In the longer version of the video two women do approach (separately) but they seemed to be coming from further away. I thought the blonde or grey haired woman sitting close to Firld was going to intervene immediately but she sat back down and tucked the empty chair in.

What did that say, Emma? It's been deleted?

Maybe I linked wrong

A good chunk of "softer" Remainers would have settled for the WA, hoping sanity would prevail during extended transitions and we'd end up in a Norway++ type Brexit

I am one of the soft-Remainers who would have done... and I got annoyed at the Remainer-ultras - such as the LibDems - who seemingly wouldn’t accept the referendum vote. I voted for Tory in 2017 as I believed they were best placed to deliver Brexit in an orderly manner that minimised the damage and maximise any opportunities (though I always believed the damage would be greater than the opportunities).

However, when the WA failed for the 3rd time, I concluded that a deal was never going to happen with the current Parliament, and that we needed a referendum or GE to break the log-jam and avoid a no-deal.

With the time elapsed and the prospect of anyone delivering a deal being remote (if Labour win a GE they’d have no chance of delivering Brexit either) I’m back to wanting us to remain... though am now a more ardent Remainer than I was before and will probably vote LibDem should there be GE in the coming months.

I think many Remainer Tory MPs are on the same journey as me, just further behind me as they are far more emotionally and practically attached to the Tory Party than I ever was.

It is possible that the EU would agree to cosmetic language changes to the backstop, which with a new flowery PD would enable Boris to get WA Mk II passed

There are enough Tory Brexit Spartans (Francois, Cash, Baker etc) who wouldn’t be persuaded with anything cosmetic, and neither would
the DUP. There is no way out for Boris!

BJ might get away with prorogation better than extension

Prorogation to force through a no-deal would lead to the biggest constitution crisis since Charles I lost his head, and that’s no exaggeration.... A revolution would be likely to result the likes of which we never thought possible.

Can't BJ do a deal with someone to enable him to ditch the DUP and go for a sea border?

What do you mean by a revolution? The British are pretty apathetic.

I've read several articles suggesting Brexit may finally destroy the 2 main parties and bring in an era of multiparty politics, 4-5 parties jostling, each with a signifiant # of MPs
BCF

I'm not sure that is so different from what there is right now, when you look at the various factions and wings all at each others' throats in every party.

What do you mean by a revolution?

I don’t necessarily mean tanks on the streets and people hanging from lampposts, but I think this would lead to an existential power-struggle between Parliament and Government that would risk shattering the fundamentals of our democracy that we take for granted and we wrongly assume will inevitably remain for eternity.

math It makes a BIG difference in Parliamentary arithmatic and hence power, i.e. who becomes the govt, 1 party or 2-3

If say the 2 main parties split, would probably start at least with the same people, but differently distributed

I want my country back and I think there's a way?

There are 100-160k Tory party members. A very small number. It costs just £2 a month to be a member.

I'm thinking of seeing how many Mumsnetters we can get to join. Even a tiny percentage of the site users would completely change the make up of party members.

Not to completely subvert the Conservatives but to swing things back to the Centre-right backing the likes of Stewart, Grieve, Clarke.

We're too late to avoid Brexit or Boris. But we're not too late to avoid whatever hard right shit show comes next.

We actually have it in our power to really move things in our country this way don't we?

I've given it some thought today and I genuinely think this could have legs and am considering a call to action post tomorrow...

Can't BJ do a deal with someone to enable him to ditch the DUP and go for a sea border?

Who exactly? No opposition parties would support BJ on this in a million years, and he’d be flying in the face of not just the ERG but those Tories for whom the union is sacrosanct. If he pursued this, he’d be finished before he started!

oakenbeach When Tory MPs call opponents traitors and WhatsApp nooses for their own PM,
when they support newspapers calling judges Enemies of the People, with mugshots
when some Tory MPs and activist talk about wanting a revolution to abolish the institutions
when the Tory party has been taken over by the hard right and the Labour party by the hard of thinking ....

prorogation is only a small step further

I would be angry, but not that shocked

"existential power-struggle between Parliament and Government that would risk shattering the fundamentals of our democracy"

We have had this continuing struggle since at least September, when May agreed the WA

I expect democracy to continue, but our institutions will be under grave strain for some time, with divided loyalties reflecting a bitterly divided country

A post-Brexit economic crash would make matters even more dangerous