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Brexit

We won’t get Farage as PM, will we?!

180 replies

fedup21 · 02/06/2019 17:52

DH seems to think the polls are predicting this and wants to emigrate!!

OP posts:
nickymanchester · 02/06/2019 19:39

It all depends if the votes for the Brexit party are spread evenly throughout the country or are concentrated in particular constituencies.

It's an unfortunate result of our first past the post system that, for most people, it really doesn't matter if they vote or not as they live in safe seats that haven't changed hands in decades.

General elections are decided in the relatively small number of marginal seats where a few hundred or a few thousand people voting differently really will make a difference.

Take the 2015 election for example. We all know the result but if that election had been run under PR in the same way that the German elections (or also the Scottish elections) are held then both the Conservatives and Labour would have had a lot fewer seats.

There would have been more Lib Dems and more Greens but the real winners would have been UKIP with around 80 seats. They would be the third largest party and the likely outcome of the 2015 election would be a Conservative/UKIP government supported by the DUP.

Just imagine what that would have looked like. Under PR, Nigel Farage would probably have been Deputy PM (like Nick Clegg) since 2015.

So, it all depends on how their vote is spread. If it's concentrated in particular areas then, yes, they will get MPs and may well be decisive in who forms the next government. If their support is spread widely but thinly then they may well end up coming second in many areas but not winning. But by taking a lot of votes they will alter the normal sort of results and previously safe seats may no longer be safe.

Likewise Lib Dems may end up coming second in a lot of areas and also upsetting what are considered safe Labour seats. So who knows what is likely to happen.

One thing I will say is that this Thursday's by-election in Peterborough could be very interesting.

For those that are unaware, Peterborough has generally been a very marginal seat and usually votes the same way as the country overall (although in 2017 it was really close and went Labour by just 607 votes).

The Labour MP was sent to prison earlier this year and there is to be a by-election to replace her.

The city voted 61% leave in the referendum and in the European elections voted overwhelmingly for the Brexit party.

38% Brexit, 17% Labour, 15% Lib Dem, 11% Conservative, 11% Green (for comparison, the national figures were 31% Brexit, 14% Labour, 20% Lib Dem, 9% Conservative, 12% Green).

So does Peterborough hate immigrants? Well, no.

Peterborough has always been a place where immigrants have settled. (Even back to the times of the Napoleonic wars). After the second world war there were many Poles and Ukrainians that settled in Peterborough and in the 1950s Peterborough became the home to one of the largest concentrations of Italian immigrants in the UK.

A legacy of this, for example, are the Orthodox and RC churches and also the RC secondary school that was specifically set up for the children of Italian immigrants by Peterborough council.

Later, the city became a "New Town" and expanded rapidly with many people from throughout the UK moving here (although I think most came from London) and later in the 1970s there was quite a large influx of Asian refugees who had been expelled from Uganda by Idi Amin.

So, Peterborough has a long history of immigration and, generally speaking, there haven't been any real problems.

However, over the last ten years or so there has been another enormous growth in immigration, this time from Europe. The local council estimates that one person out of every eight living in the city is a European migrant.

These migrants are generally quite young and fertile. Around 50% of all births at Peterborough hospital are to mothers who were not born in the UK. The largest group are Polish. This then feeds into rapidly increasing demands for extra school places which are causing strains on class sizes in the city.

Even anecdotally, walking down the street if you see a young couple with a child it is more likely than not that they will be speaking a language other than English.

That's not to say that the schools are not coping as best they can and even doing well in some cases (although the city as a whole performs below average in the league tables). An example from the Guardian:-

The school where they speak 20 languages: a day at Gladstone Primary

Not one pupil at the Peterborough school speaks English as a first language. But, despite the challenges, it has just received a glowing Ofsted report. The Guardian spent a day there

But it really has been this massive increase over recent years (along with effects of austerity) that have really changed things and how many people perceive the situation.

Even The Guardian, who are very much "Remainer Central" when it comes to Brexit have reported on Peterborough a number of times over the years, the latest being just today:-

Peterborough prepares for byelection that could elect first Brexit party MP

A decade ago it was the UK’s fastest growing city, but hit by cuts and buy-to-let, support for Nigel Farage’s party is high

On Thursday, voters in Peterborough will take part in one of the most intriguing parliamentary byelections in recent memory. The constituency saw a knife-edge duel between Labour and the Conservatives at the 2017 general election and at last month’s European poll, 38% of voters in the city backed the Brexit party. A first seat in the House of Commons for Nigel Farage’s party is a distinct possibility. If that happens, it will send tremors through middle England, of which Peterborough is typical in many ways, not just geographically.

I live in Peterborough and, quite frankly, the Brexit Party candidate is the only one that I've actually heard from.

This is an important by-election and the Conservatives and Labour can't even be arsed to get off their backsides and ask me to vote for them. Come Thursday, I'm much more likely to vote Brexit than anything else.

Mistigri · 02/06/2019 20:27

Come Thursday, I'm much more likely to vote Brexit than anything else.

After all that anti-immigrant garbage, I can't imagine anyone will be in the least surprised.

Piggywaspushed · 02/06/2019 20:35

nicky , do you care that the BXP candidate has absolutely no policies, ideas, or even thoughts about education in your constituency, even though (as you acknowledge) education is a key issue in Peterborough?

Bearbehind · 02/06/2019 20:38

do you care that the BXP candidate has absolutely no policies, ideas, or even thoughts about education in your constituency, even though (as you acknowledge) education is a key issue in Peterborough?

Clearly not.

EllebellyBeeblebrox · 02/06/2019 20:42

I work in Peterborough and live just outside it. I'm gutted at the amount of support that the Brexit party seem to have here, and I can guarantee despite turning up here last week Farage doesn't give two shits about the people or the problems here. Sad that a lot of people don't seem to see that, or that supporting a party like them with no policies or manifesto is potentially dangerous.

Piggywaspushed · 02/06/2019 20:42

The Guardian article Nicky refers to is actually a very interesting read, particularly the damage that Buy To Let has been wreaking for years

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/02/peterborough-prepares-for-byelection-that-could-see-first-brexit-party-mp

nickymanchester · 02/06/2019 20:54

After all that anti-immigrant garbage

Is there anything that I have said that is factually incorrect?

No, there isn't.

By the way, I was actually born and grew up in Peterborough. I went to school in Peterborough and had many friends from elsewhere (in fact, one of my best friends was some one who was kicked out of Uganda and came here as a refugee).

Things really are of a different magnitude now but, clearly, as far as you are concerned my actual lived experience of the issues doesn't really count for anything.

I guess that as far as you are concerned I'm just another ignorant, racist, xenophobe who has no experience of life (even though I'll bet that I've worked abroad in more countries and experienced many more cultures than you ever have).

abbiecloud · 02/06/2019 20:56

Happy to sell off the NHS then Nicky ?

Bearbehind · 02/06/2019 21:00

nicky how do you justify to yourself that all of that is the fault of the EU?

It’s not - it’s the fault of successive governments and yet you think voting for a one trick pony with absolutely no idea how to proceed, is a good idea?

Piggywaspushed · 02/06/2019 21:00

nicky I asked you a question about education. Would you care to answer? I haven't called you anything btw.

PortiaCastis · 02/06/2019 21:04

It's beyond me how anyone can vote for a twat with no policies

Songsofexperience · 02/06/2019 21:10

He is the 'public' face of Bannon.
And Bannon needs public faces to carry his message (ie spread his poison) as he's the most uncharismatic uninspiring interviewee. A grey little man with shifty eyes. I stumbled on am interview he was giving on French tv. Very underwhelming and wishy washy.

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 02/06/2019 21:16

do you care that the BXP candidate has absolutely no policies, ideas, or even thoughts about education in your constituency, even though (as you acknowledge) education is a key issue in Peterborough?

This.

They have no policies. None.

I can understand people voting for parties who have policies I disagree with. I cannot fathom, for the life of me, why anyone would vote for a party that has absolutely no policies at all!

Piggywaspushed · 02/06/2019 21:20

BXP MPs will go to Westminster as wrecking balls to any bills or debates. Like a sea of Chopes, blocking and objecting to everything.

nickymanchester · 02/06/2019 21:23

Piggywaspushed

nicky , do you care that the BXP candidate has absolutely no policies, ideas, or even thoughts about education in your constituency, even though (as you acknowledge) education is a key issue in Peterborough?

As this is a by-election, the outcome of this one vote cannot conceivably have any effect on education policy. So, the lack of any policy concerning education does not bother me at this point in time.

When it comes to a general election that is an entirely different matter altogether and, yes, I would be examining the different party's stances on education (and many other issues).

So, while I will likely be voting Brexit on Thursday I really do have no idea who I would vote for in any future general election.

For context, in the past I have either voted Labour or not voted at all if I couldn't bring myself to support Labour at that time.

abbiecloud · 02/06/2019 21:25

You're voting for your local MP, the same as a general election.

Caucasianchalkcircles · 02/06/2019 21:26

I've read the guardian article mentioned upthread about peterborough and agree that the Brexit party will probably take the seat. Sad thing is ordinary people really do want change, they're undoubtedly sick of austerity and the consequent crumbling of essential public services like the NHS, education and policing, frustrated about inequality and dishonest mendacious politicians who get away with incompetency willy nilly. In contrast Farage sounds decisive, talks the talk just like a good populist does.Trouble is his policies are even more right wing and neoliberal if you look at who he's allied with particularly in the US.

Piggywaspushed · 02/06/2019 21:27

nicky I am beyond getting this : that man will represent your constituency at Westminster. It's his job to field enquiries about infrastructure, education, local investment. Even my MP, Mad Nad, pretends to care about more than Brexit and has 'views' on the environment and on some local issues. He could be your MP for some time!

Hey ho.

nickymanchester · 02/06/2019 21:30

nicky I asked you a question about education. Would you care to answer? I haven't called you anything btw.

Sorry, I'm in the middle of doing other stuff at the moment and can only give this part of my attention

ballsdeep · 02/06/2019 21:30

We would have thought that about Boris a while back..........

EllebellyBeeblebrox · 02/06/2019 21:33

It's a by-election yes, but you're still voting for who you want to represent your constituency, your views and priorities. It baffles me how Farage and his ilk have the support they do in deprived areas like this, the man is a mendacious, elitist prick who cares not one iota about the people of this area and many others who have been at the shitty end of Tory policies for the last however many years. He cares only for shameless self promotion, not the people of this country.

Piggywaspushed · 02/06/2019 21:37

Peterborough's not even particularly deprived . It's not classic UKIP territory. BXP seems to have wider appeal.

kalinkafoxtrot45 · 02/06/2019 21:42

Farage is slippery, nasty and has some unpleasant backers. Don’t underestimate him. He’s a piece of work, like the rest of the Brexit Party shower.

nickymanchester · 02/06/2019 21:46

Even my MP, Mad Nad, pretends to care about more than Brexit and has 'views' on the environment and on some local issues.

I have tried engaging with the local MP in the past (both the Tory and Labour ones ) but, quite frankly, although they may talk the talk they never seem to walk the walk. As you quite rightly say, they "pretend" to care.

I remember when I was still at school and the MP back then was Brian Mawhinney, he never really cared about any local stuff and the Labour MP that followed him only really seemed to care about wildlife issues.

I truly have little faith in how much a single backbench MP can achieve so the fact that the next election may not be until 2022 doesn't seem so bad.

Quite frankly, I see Thursday as very much another protest vote that will be very different from how I will choose to vote in any future general election.

To be totally frank, I really have no idea who I would vote for in a general election.

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 02/06/2019 21:46

Nicky, genuine question - do you think that Nigel Farage and the Brexit Party have the best interests of the people of Peterborough at heart in this by-election? Do you think that Mike Greene has the answers - even some of the answers - to the issues that concern you?

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