Westministenders: The Only Election That Matters - The Tory One

[RedToothBrush]

Fallout from the Euro Elections makes for interesting reading for the leadership hopefuls.

Its not a clear cut as some make out. There is still a case for a deal. The trouble is passing it through parliament. And there is no time to do that. Nor no will.

Any new leader's priority isn't going to be a deal. Its going to be avoiding a General Election. And thats going to be hard.

We are also realistically facing the prospect of another extension which France is likely to block leading to no deal or no deal.

Or a 2nd Referendum.

A 2nd Referendum might be the only way to avoid a General Election. And that will still have no deal on the ballot. Of that you can be sure.

Peter Foster of the Telegraph remarked this morning that in fact the only way to a deal now, might well be via no deal, because of all the routes we have exhausted through incompetence. And that will come at a very high price.

Owen has made proposals for Brexit, but didn't make much sense

DG Same as they thought of Trump draft-dodging during the VietNam war

You just have to Believe ....

{Owen has made proposals for Brexit, but didn't make much sense}
Put him in the corner with all the others then.

On a pedantic point of order : it's DUNbartonshire.

Don't ask me to explain why. I can't.

And the SNP are hardly the 'little man' sticking it to the elite any more.

I wanted Scottish independence as a youngster. Times were tough.

Then labour got in (my 1st GE vote) and we got Devolution.

I then moved to England and have not supported Independence for over 20 years.

The lies that have been told, the complete disregard for Scotland and the complete idiocy that the English mainly have voted for, make me strongly support another referendum in Scotland.

England is the weak link. It’s only going to get weaker.

Scotland will prosper better and much faster separated from England and Wales.

Scotland I imagine will immediately join a customs union and eventually rejoin the EU.

The EU is a much better partner for Scotland than rUK.

SBring on Boris, I say! We will then have NC vote & GE (parties like it or not) so fast it’ll make your head spin!

Scotland I imagine will immediately join a customs union and eventually rejoin the EU.

Wouldn’t this require a hard border between England and Scotland?

{Wouldn’t this require a hard border between England and Scotland?}
Of course.
I am not sure of the 'immediate' aspect, but battles need to be fought one at a time.

David Owen isn't involved in the new version of the SDP. He tried to wind the party up a few years ago (I think) but some members remained & the new (v different) party grew from that.

Ah, ok, I didn't realise. He is definitely pro-Brexit though.

But the brexiters want to control our borders! One between England and Scotland shouldn't be contentious.

{But the brexiters want to control our borders!}

Well they have 5 months to sort out the one in Ireland.

A border with Scotland wouldn't be such a big issue though. Hopefully the EU would pay for it.

The EU would ASSIST in paying for it, as far as I can gather looking at the EU website. This is in acknowledgement that many countries don't have external borders.

SBring on Boris, I say! We will then have NC vote & GE (parties like it or not) so fast it’ll make your head spin!

Yes, what nobody wants or needs - Brexiteer or Remainer- is a “reasonable” Theresa May Mk2 as PM who tries fruitlessly to get a withdrawal deal the Tories will agree to over the next few months, somehow successfully holding the no-dealers and one-nation Tories together in a tense and brittle union until the pretence can continue no longer in Sept/Oct.

Things have moved so fast over the past month... when the LDs and CHUK were neck and neck! Look at them now! Who know how things will pan out...

I gree a GE is a step into the unknown, but the present complete impasse in HoC can only really be settled by an election. TM’s position, weak as it was, was supported democratically by the 2017 election. Whoever takes over as PM will result from the will of a tiny number of conservatives. Completely unacceptable.
The election results could be anything, hard right coalition (BREX & Con), mid- left (LD, Lab, Gr, SNP) but whoever leads must have some tangible mandate from the voters.

A border between England and Scotland is less politically contentious, but would surely be difficult in practical terms. Or are we talking about a bigly wall?

{Or are we talking about a bigly wall?}
There was a bigly wall, but someone nicked most of the stone.
You can't trust anyone these days.

Apparently "the Saj" has cracked the Brexit conundrum. He's going to tell Ireland it's place negotiate "directly with Ireland.

Somebody throw a lettuce into that leadership contest to raise the IQ ....

(Writing in Saturday's Daily Mail - CBA to source a link)

Poor lettuce, DGR! 😂

I gree a GE is a step into the unknown, but the present complete impasse in HoC can only really be settled by an election.

Whilst it's true it could be settled by a GE that returns a true majority government (whether Leave or Remain) there's also an entirely possible outcome of a GE that doesn't return a majority government. And unless there is a Big Idea before the election on what to do if that were to happen, then we have arguable stepped back - not forward.

The problem with getting the Big Idea (quite aside from the low quality of our politicians) is it requires all sides to contemplate not winning. And as we know from previous elections that's kryptonite to Tories and Labour.

Personally, I'd rather have a GE than a PV. But I'm quite relaxed with a parliament that has no majority, but where real compromise is needed to achieve anything. Because in that situation, the only viable compromise would be revoke A50, and tell the Brexiteers to come back when they have a plan.

But I'm quite relaxed with a parliament that has no majority, but where real compromise is needed to achieve anything. Because in that situation, the only viable compromise would be revoke A50, and tell the Brexiteers to come back when they have a plan

But there are a few credible articles flying around saying that parliament could not prevent a no deal Tory leader from exiting the EU without a deal.

But there are a few credible articles flying around saying that parliament could not prevent a no deal Tory leader from exiting the EU without a deal.

In a parliament with no majority ?

@Lonelytiredandlow "Widdlecum"
sniggers childishly

There was an article on the IoG website saying that there is now no formal way to stop a No Deal scenario - whether by mistake or by design

.... unless the official opposition grows a spine does a volte face and actually opposes and tries a Vote of No Confidence again and some of the Conservative MPs (probably quite a few because of a few pro-Brexit Labour MPs who are likely to support the government ) choose to vote with them to bring down their own government