No Deal Brexit - Bring it on

[Bearbehind]

It’s economic suicide but there’s clearly no other way to demonstrate to Leavers what a shit show this all is.

Leavers resolutely refuse to listen to anything negative after 3 years, so fuck it.

I feel for those who woukd be affected by it but I didn’t cause it.

The irony is there’s not a Tory MP with the guts he cone PM and then to do it - so this mess will go on indefinitely.

{The WA is dead if we don’t sign it.}

If thinking that makes you happy then so be it. Enjoy your delusion.

Bear the WA will not be dead, it will just wait until we take up trade FTA negotiations with the EU, and then it will need to be agreed by the UK (the EU might let Boris et al change what we call 'it' to save face perhaps) before the negotiations are completed. Or we could just decide that we will not need a trade agreement with the EU.

For crying out loud - it will not be the current WA by then.

Have you really not understood that Brexit is all about emotions and feelings.

If you go about insisting the WA has to be signed come what may, you just get everyone’s back up.

Give it a new name and a bit of spin and it becomes something different - because it is not the WA.

*For crying out loud - it will not be the current WA by then.

Have you really not understood that Brexit is all about emotions and feelings.

If you go about insisting the WA has to be signed come what may, you just get everyone’s back up*

Erm, it will be the current WA because the EU have said it will be on numerous occasions. If we crash out of the EU with no deal, the EU have said they will want us to sign the WA before they open any new trade negotiations with us.

It may be about emotions and beliefs for people who voted leave. It is not about those things for the EU. It is about making sure that the leaving country meets its legal obligations, to avoid detriment to the EU 27.

The WA is a list of those legal obligations. You can change the name of it and call it Barbara, but it is the same thing and will need to be signed. If we want to trade with Europe. Which, given that we mostly export services to them, which are not covered by WTO arrangements, we will really want to sign.

People may wish this was different. It doesn't make it so. We can choose to never sign the WA. And then we never get to trade with the EU again. We will also have breached international treaties by not signing, fucked up the GGA, and noone will agree to trade with us. Even the US has said if we fuck up the GFA via no deal, they won't trade with us.

It may make some people unhappy, but those are the facts.

Itis1leclerc is absolutely spot on with his analysis of the situation.

Erm, it will be the current WA because the EU have said it will be on numerous occasions. If we crash out of the EU with no deal, the EU have said they will want us to sign the WA before they open any new trade negotiations with us.

Please can you provide the evidence of this as everything I’ve seen says the content of the WA would need to be factored into future negiotiations but crucially, negiotiations are reopened.

It is not the current take it or leave it. Even if in reality very little changes.

I simply don’t understand why you people don’t see how emotive it is to state the current WA willl be signed whatever when it’s not even true.

We can choose to never sign the WA. And then we never get to trade with the EU again

And that is just utter, hysterical bollocks.

Ok gronky. Let’s hear how you’d go about suing your Brazilian lime supplier. I’m especially looking forward to the part where you explain how the WTO is going to help.
This will be a good’un.

We can choose to never sign the WA. And then we never get to trade with the EU again

This is precisely what the EU has said. Well, they've said if we want a trade deal, we have to sign the (not a) WA first. Which is the same thing.

WTO brexit would not just be economic suicide we would be completely trashing our international reputation as a competent trustworthy nation and endangering our national security, weakening and destabilising the Western alliance.

No wonder Vladimir Putin is so keen on the idea he has bent over backwards to help his puppet Farage.

We can choose to never sign the WA. And then we never get to trade with the EU again

This is precisely what the EU has said. Well, they've said if we want a trade deal, we have to sign the (not a) WA first. Which is the same thing.

And therein lies is the reason we have Brexit. How on earth is that working in the best interests of the EU27?

And therein lies is the reason we have Brexit. How on earth is that working in the best interests of the EU27?

Why would it be in the best interests of the EU27 to have one member leave and expect to be treated as if they were a member - and for free? Would you expect to leave a gym, stop paying and still use all the facilities?

This is precisely what the EU has said. Well, they've said if we want a trade deal, we have to sign the (not a) WA first. Which is the same thing.

Please can you provide a link to this statement

Signing it is in the best interests of the EU 27, because they only want to negotiate with a country which meets its previously agreed legal obligations. The WA simply lists them.

Why would the EU27 NOT want the UK to have signed off on their legal commitments, before entering into future trade agreements?

@BearBehind I am afraid that despite you finding the facts to be hysterical nonsense and emotive, they remain.....the facts.

If by "you people" you mean people who have kept a close eye on what Tusk and Juncker et al have said, then I am happy to be one of those people.

Much of what they have said has been in the political statements made following negotiations, and in tweets. I cannot be bothered to trawl back to find the clips or tweets of them saying this.

However, if you do some research, you will find that they have stated, repeatedly, what is being said here.

Just because you personally haven't heard these things does not mean that they have not been said. Surely it is pretty arrogant to think that?

We can choose to never sign the WA. And then we never get to trade with the EU again
Oh this is so funny, its exactly because of that sort of blackmail that we are leaving the EU. And seriously the longer we are out the more trade deals we will sort out with other countries and eventually we will tell the EU to get lost.
As a practical necessity after no deal, the Irish 'border' will be sorted and so will no longer be needed in a post Brexit WA. Countries will sort out what rights EU/UK citizens have themselves and everyone will get used to them, so that part of the WA wont be needed.

All that will be left is the money which we will probably agree to give them when we have agreed a trade deal. So after Brexit the WA just wont be relevant or needed.

I am afraid that despite you finding the facts to be hysterical nonsense and emotive, they remain.....the facts.

Sueperbly until you provide a link to a source which states that the WA has to be signed in the event of no deal, I’ll stick with my view point.

You’ve completely destroyed your credibility by claiming unless this is done ‘we never get to trade with the EU again’

That really is the most ridiculous bollocks - even under WTO we can trade.

It’ll be worse than we have now but it can happen.

walking is right - spouting that kind of shite only serves to make Leavers dig in more.

Walkingdeadfangirl whatever you say

It truly is irrelevant what posters think, wish or believe. It isn't about trying to scare anybody. The facts are the facts. If you have missed them when they have been stated, that is your lookout.

This is rather like arguing that the sky isn't blue, because some posters don't want it to be.

Facts are not the same as beliefs or fears. But they are what Brexit will have to be based on. Being uneducated as to the facts, does not mean that what others say is hysterical nonsense.

Furthermore, why should others spend the time hunting down the relevant information for you to peruse? What benefit is that to them? If you are able to post on mumsnet, you are able to Google.

But getting cross at the facts, when you clearly cannot be bothered to put the work in to find the information yourselves, is really rather unbecoming.

sueperbly failing to provide links to facts is generally not a Remainers trait.

Either support your argument or give it up.

I’ve looked and I can’t find a single thing that supports the argument that we have to sign the WA in the event of no deal.

And only a complete idiot would believe that failing to sign this will result in us being completely unable to trade with the EU ever again so I dont need to Google that.

And we cannot trade services (80% of our exports) under WTO rules.

Sorry, educate yourself. I don't care whether you agree or not. It doesn't change the facts.

I am that you would think someone would be so silly as to do the hard graft, of searching the internet for the facts, for them. To achieve credibility

Ah ok. So I am a complete idiot now

Whatever you say. I am sure that you are right.

If you are right and I am wrong I’m more than happy for you to prove it.

Just stating your opinions as facts, without providing supporting evidence, does make you look an idiot.

Just stating your opinions as facts, without providing supporting evidence, does make you look an idiot

If you think so. How can I make this any clearer:

The facts are out there.
I cannot be bothered to look for them for you.
I don't feel the need to prove my credibility to some internet random.
Nor do I care if said random calls me names. Ad Hominem attacks say all about the deliverer and nothing about the recipient.

To conclude: your opinion means zero. The facts are the facts.

I am hiding the thread now, as I truly cannot be arsed to debate with someone who doesn't understand that I give no shits as to their opinion.

does make you look an idiot
Oh dear.

sueperbly I’ve looked and looked and your ‘facts’ cannot be confirmed.

Hide the thread if it makes you feel better but you do look foolish for doing so as it’s clear you are talking nonsense.

This is surreal - I’m now arguing with so called Remainers who are spouting shite and peddling it as the truth.

We are truly fucked.

It's as if Remain winning 20 seats and Leave getting barely 5 has rattled them a tad.