No Deal Brexit - Bring it on

[Bearbehind]

It’s economic suicide but there’s clearly no other way to demonstrate to Leavers what a shit show this all is.

Leavers resolutely refuse to listen to anything negative after 3 years, so fuck it.

I feel for those who woukd be affected by it but I didn’t cause it.

The irony is there’s not a Tory MP with the guts he cone PM and then to do it - so this mess will go on indefinitely.

pizza sadly I agree with every word of that

Will this mean house prices will decrease?

Probably, but it is also likely to mean that interest rates will go up, banks will be more cautious about lending and fewer people will sell as they’ll be in negative equity - so all in all housing will remain out of reach for most people just as it is now.

I am not prepared to agree to damage my country in this way just because 36% of the people at the last election think we should.
I am capable of being perfectly stubborn as well.
They do not have a majority and I am not giving them my consent.

Again. No deal will make it very difficult for those of us in NI to "just get on with life". This is an extraordinarily selfish, if not unusual, view.

Yet there are plenty of people in NI who support no deal.

That’s the problem here - they simply won’t be convinced by anything other than the reality of it happening and this limbo period is already damaging the country.

We'll all be poorer. We'll all be more vulnerable to extremist views. There'll be heavy scapegoating of anything and anyone European. No deal would mean humilitiation for Britain I'm sure and the resulting anger will then express itself in a very ugly way. That's the way of history I'm afraid.

They do not have a majority and I am not giving them my consent.

Sadly they don’t need your consent - they won the referendum

Probably, but it is also likely to mean that interest rates will go up, banks will be more cautious about lending and fewer people will sell as they’ll be in negative equity - so all in all housing will remain out of reach for most people just as it is now.

What a shit show. This is so depressing.

{But nobody has to wriggle out of it because the WA has not got the support of parliament}

The problem you are having is that you are forgetting that OUTSIDE the UK, what the UK parliament thinks means NOTHING. It is the international treaties that count.
The UK is sovereign, and can decide what it wants to do WITHIN the UK.
The EU is 'Sovereign' and can decide what it wants to do. The treaties in the WA are the links between the two that bind the UK to the EU.
A50 is the legal declaration that the UK wants to leave (internationally recognised). The WA is what needs to be ratified for the UK to leave.

Sadly they don’t need your consent - they won the referendum

They DO need our consent. Only tyranny ignores and represses the views of the minority. Especially such a huge minority as 48.1%
Democracy is defined by consensus not by steamrollering others. Norway+ is the only way to leave politically and safeguard our economy.

A50 is the legal declaration that the UK wants to leave (internationally recognised). The WA is what needs to be ratified for the UK to leave.

Unless we leave with no deal!

I’m sorry but I simply don’t agree you are right about this and, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Only tyranny ignores and represses the views of the minority. Especially such a huge minority as 48.1%

They’ve managed to do so for 3 years so far.

{I’m sorry but I simply don’t agree you are right about this and, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.}

To be honest I don't care if you agree with me or not, but I am on the side of 27 of the EU's leaders representing about 450 Million people so there is a chance I am correct.
Your inability to work this out from 2 sentences in English, but also available in 26 other languages is mildly concerning.

I may be wrong, but 1tis are you trying to say that the UK will have to agree to the terms of the WA at some point if it wants a future trade deal with the EU even if we crash out with no deal? Because otherwise I agree with Bear. The UK cannot be compelled to sign the agreement. The default if we don't sign it is that we end up with no deal.

Please don’t revert to insults and patronising comments, just prove me wrong with evidence your opinion is correct?

IMO no deal is the consequence of being unable to agree a WA.

The WA cannot therefore be required for no deal.

I accept that some of it’s content would form part of negiotiations for third country trade deals but it won’t be the WA itself.

For starters the backstop is completely irrelevant in a no deal scenario.

The WA is what needs to be ratified for the UK to leave.

Then why has everybody been banging on about how we were in danger of crashing out with “no deal” on 29th March and now on Halloween? If what you are saying is correct then crashing out would be impossible.

DippyAvocado
If we leave with no deal whatsoever, our trade agreements with the EU and all other countries that we have trade deals with via the EU (so, everyone, basically) stop overnight

Except that we have already transitioned a number of trade agreements from the EU already - no doubt there will be more to come over the next 5 months;

"A list of the trade and mutual recognition agreements the UK has signed with non-EU countries."

www.gov.uk/guidance/signed-uk-trade-agreements-transitioned-from-the-eu

It is very stupid to try and force through a significant political event without losers consent. That doesn't mean the government can't of course. Although the government does need the consent of Parliment.
There is no political authority for a hard Brexit.
There is a referendum result supporting a Brexit but the following votes do not support a hard Brexit. Democracy isn't just one vote but a series of them.
A hard Brexit would be likely to lead to deaths in NI, it is irresponsible to agree to that happening.

A list of the trade and mutual recognition agreements the UK has signed with non-EU countries

Some real economic power houses on that list. Really justifies spending billions leaving the most prosperous trading in the world.

The WA is what needs to be ratified for the UK to leave.

Completely incorrect, it's a proposal for the structure of the departure from the EU and is, at this stage, merely a proposal. The current default route, due to Article 50 having been invoked is a No Deal Brexit. There are other routes available but Britain is under no obligation to agree to the Withdrawal Agreement and would not be breaking any treaties by following No Deal (which it would by agreeing to the Withdrawal Agreement before subsequently moving to WTO rules).

www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/?keyword=brexit+announcements&dateFrom=&dateTo=&filters=1536&filters=1661

This is the page about Brexit announcements, I don't have the time to wade through the details myself.

Crashing out with 'no deal' as Clavinova helpfully points out means that ALL the treaties cease overnight (currently 31 October). The UK (viewed from Europe) legally ceases to exist. There is no 'obligation' for the EU to actually speak to the UK prime minister (if they don't want to).
The reality is that the WA will be sitting on a table somewhere and the UK prime minister will have to come and sign it, and in the meantime the EU can sit on it's hands and wait.
There is nowhere in the world that can supply the food that the UK consumes if it does not come from the EU or the other countries currently covered by it's FTA and other agreements. It is not sitting on shelves waiting to be shipped.
So, although the WA may technically not be required to be signed to achieve a 'no deal' the real world implications are that the EU will simply wait for the UK to starve, if it is determined to be so pig headed.

GhostofFrankGrimes
We haven't left the EU yet.

1tisILeClerc
Crashing out with 'no deal' as Clavinova helpfully points out means that ALL the treaties cease overnight (currently 31 October).

Click on any of the non-EU countries in my link and it says;
"The agreement can take effect if the UK leaves the EU without a deal."

the EU will simply wait for the UK to starve, if it is determined to be so pig headed.

At least the roads won't be blocked in Kent.

Crashing out with 'no deal' as Clavinova helpfully points out means that ALL the treaties cease overnight (currently 31 October). The UK (viewed from Europe) legally ceases to exist.

Precisely why the WTO exists, the EU doesn't have direct treaties with every country on the planet, yet good still continue to make their way out there.

Many of those trade deals on the government website are classed as incomplete though. For example, only 3 out of 17 MRAs with Switzerland have been rolled over as the Swiss have said they will wait until the nature of the UK's future relationship with the EU is confirmed before they agree the other areas.

BBC link

{Precisely why the WTO exists, the EU doesn't have direct treaties with every country on the planet, yet good still continue to make their way out there.}

With a snag that the EU is an integral part of the vast majority of the stuff that the UK wants. Much of it traversing through the EU.
You can probably get a good deal on seal skin pelts, but I am not sure many in the UK really want them.