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Brexit

Westminstenders: Local Elections Madness

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 27/04/2019 22:37

This week has gone from banging your head against the wall to wanting to bang your head through it.

Labour have voted to support a 2nd ref as their EU election campaign strategy. Only for Corbyn to ignore it. And a row has broken out.

Change UK seem well on track to make everyone else look professional and to look as 'liberal elite' as humanly possible in a real life reverse paraody of themselves.

The Brexit Party is going from strength to strength with the most wtf candidates imaginable and Farage is happy cos his mate is coming to tea with the Queen.

The Liberal Democrats have decided that anti semitism is OK in an effort to keep Labour seats.

And the Conservatives. Where to start? Probably with the Tory Leadership Election infighting which looks suspiciously as if its now breached national security.

As for Brexit. No one really wants to talk about it. Local elections are next week. May is now apparently supporting the Malthouse Compromise. Be warned, it is difficult to see it as anything but a Trojan Horse for No Deal. Not that everyone has worked this out yet. But until we have the blood bath of the local elections over and done with on Thursday, don't expect much to happen.

Then expect the Tories to lose their minds...

OP posts:
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NoWordForFluffy · 01/05/2019 20:28

You'd think so, otherwise they'd be perverting the course of justice, surely?

frumpety · 01/05/2019 20:32

Does Boris Johnson still write for The Telegraph ?

Littlespaces · 01/05/2019 20:35

47 ministers have resigned or been sacked from May's government in the last 23 months.

jasjas1973 · 01/05/2019 20:37

Aren't journalists protected from revealing their sources under a HR court decision a few years back.

Anyhow, surely however leaked, didn't do it directly? "Hi Teresa here thought i'd let you know........"

Violetparis · 01/05/2019 20:38

Just seen a comment elsewhere saying imagine if The Telegraph came out and said it wasn't Gavin Williamson !

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2019 20:38

May is in such a weak position one would assume she'd never dare sack anyone without cast iron proof
BUT with the current level of chaos, it could be mistaken identity for another psychopathic Cabinet Minister

Usually a gangland villain swearing on their child's life - he's not normal

Any of the rivals for the Tory leadership would sacrifice their first-born to be dismembered and eaten by Corbyn

and Onasanya sacked by her constituents. !
After the failure of Ian Paisley's recall petition I was wondering if this facility was useless because voters are too apathetic to reach the 10% mark

but 28% ! She really pissed off her constituents

Even with the risk of BREX winning a by-election, she had to go

borntobequiet · 01/05/2019 20:40

Perhaps Theresa is having a competition with Trump. All to play for before the State Visit
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39826934

Littlespaces · 01/05/2019 20:41

@lewis_goodall
In the 23 months since the general election 47 ministers have resigned or been sacked from Theresa May's government. That's just about two a month.

To the surprise of many, none of them were Chris Grayling.

To put it another way, 15% of all Conservative MPs have either resigned or been sacked from the government in the last two years.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2019 20:44

Upthread quote about the shame of anyone being sacked by May

Nothing to the shame of being sacked when Grayling stays

RHTawneyonabus · 01/05/2019 20:46

I said on the Gavin Williamson = sliver fox thread that it would either be him or Penny as the others are all a bit cleverer than that.

If my DH swore anything on my child’s life I’d hit the roof.

RedToothBrush · 01/05/2019 20:49

The protection of journalistic sources is somewhat sancrosant in the Uk. The press will stick by this as a matter of principle, because if they give up their sources they won't get leakers and whistleblowers and those all important sources.

So they won't just give up a source. They would have to be forced. And even then I think they would generally at least try and fight this. And the law is on their side generally.

The main legislation governing the protection of journalistic sources is the Contempt of Court Act 1981 (CCA 1981). Section 10 provides that in a free and democratic society there is a need to protect journalists’ sources and presumes in favour of those journalists wishing to do so. There are however exceptions to this presumption where disclosure of the information will be deemed necessary. These are:

<span class="italic">in the interests of justice;</span>
<span class="italic">in the interests of national security;</span>
<span class="italic">for the prevention of disorder or crime;</span>

In the interests of justice
Whether disclosure of a journalistic source will be deemed to be in the interest of justice is dependent on the facts of the case. Courts are reluctant to establish that disclosure is in the interest of justice and will usually only do so where vital public or individual interest are at stake.

An example of this may be a large company in financial difficulties having this exposed by a newspaper using a confidential source within the company. The company may argue that there has been a breach of confidence by the source and therefore in the interests of justice that source should be disclosed to enable a breach of confidence claim to be brought. Nevertheless, the court will often claim that the public interest in revealing the company’s financial difficulties outweighs the company’s interest in the breach of confidence claim.

In the interests of national security
Where national security is concerned the necessity for disclosure of the source will be almost automatic. Keeping information concerning national security confidential outweighs the right to keep the source confidential.

This is because the people divulging information regarding national security will usually be those employed in government and therefore have an obligation of confidentiality. If someone in this position is willing to provide information to the press, they are not fulfilling their role as a trusted servant to the government and will need to be indentified and removed from their position to protect national security.

For the prevention of disorder or a crime
The public interest in preventing disorder or a crime is said to be of such overriding importance that disclosure will be almost automatic. If the disclosure can prevent a criminal offence taking place or some form of public disorder which affects the general public of the country, that will be considered more important than protecting the interests of an individual journalistic source.

Now does it fall into any of these categories?

Possibly. Possibly not.

Its worth reflecting on this by Stephen Bush:

stephen

Stephen Bush @stephenkb
I cannot believe that I am about to say something supportive about Gavin Williamson but: it wasn't a leak of classified material, about sources in the field or one with any operational information at all. It was a public infrastructure decision that should be debated in public.

Longer bit on this: it is, of course, shameful to disagree with a procurement decision in your department to the point you leak it and hope to stay in your Cabinet job, but May also comes out of this really badly:
www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/05/theresa-may-and-gavin-williamsons-reputations-should-both-be-destroyed-his
Theresa May and Gavin Williamson’s reputations should both be destroyed by his sacking

The South Staffordshire MP’s firing reflects poorly on both politicians concerned.

The dismissal reflects poorly on both Williamson and the woman who repeatedly promoted him. While the decision was taken at a meeting of the National Security Council, to which only ministers with security clearance are invited, it did not concern operational or classified information and the decision is fundamentally a public procurement one that deserves to be debated in full view. To do as May did and conduct a mole hunt right in heart of government is a ludicrous reaction, albeit one which typifies the British state’s attitude to and treatment of whistleblowers.

And this will be the line that The Telegraph would ultimately use, because their interests lie in protecting sources and encouraging whistleblowing.

Also, if I were the Met, I'd take one look at this mess and seriously consider what Stephen Bush says in order to declare it a political rather than security leak so they don't have to investigate this unholy political minefield.

May's gamble is perhaps precisely because its a political sacking rather than a legal sacking and those who have the greatest vested interests (The Telegraph and the police) really won't want a criminal investigation / won't want to cooperate with a criminal investigation.

But that calculation might well cook May's goose in its own right yet.

OP posts:
frumpety · 01/05/2019 20:50

www.ft.com/content/b87fca52-6b40-11e9-80c7-60ee53e6681d

Cheery little piece in the FT. Slightly off track but worth it, if only for the snappy 'Brexit vortex of shit' Grin

jasjas1973 · 01/05/2019 20:54

May is in such a weak position one would assume she'd never dare sack anyone without cast iron proof

Perhaps because she is considered so weak, she was set up without giving proper scrutiny of the evidence?

As i said, its odd GW is so vocal in protesting his innocence, he must surely know this will end up with a criminal investigation.

RedToothBrush · 01/05/2019 20:54

Just seen a comment elsewhere saying imagine if The Telegraph came out and said it wasn't Gavin Williamson !

The Telegraph could well do this, without revealing who it was.

Arguably it might be fitting with their agenda if they did so.

Its more interesting if they don't. You'd have to ask why they DIDN'T rush to the defence of an innocent party?

Who benefits from that? Well it harms the interests of a prospective Tory Leadership candidate.

They might also not rush to his defence if he wasn't the source, but it was someone in his camp, because its arguable whether he knew or not.

Or it could well be him.

So actually I'd find the Telegraph not leaping to the defence of Williamson, more interesting than a statement from them saying 'no it wasn't him'.

OP posts:
NoWordForFluffy · 01/05/2019 20:55

It's a proper old mess, isn't it?

Almost like someone is trying to divert our attention away from other matters.

jasjas1973 · 01/05/2019 21:00

RTB - the Telegraph may not know the source, info was almost certainly passed anonymously

Violetparis · 01/05/2019 21:02

Thank you for the info/analysis Red. I was going to have a break from politics tonight but it's so intriguing.

LonelyTiredandLow · 01/05/2019 21:03

Could China have stipulated that they wouldn't talk trade unless we got rid of the plonker threatening them? If it wasn't that and it wasn't Gav, my money is on Fox and this somehow unravelling some dodgy trade deals he has made behind closed doors.

OublietteBravo · 01/05/2019 21:12

She doesn’t look ‘delighted’ to me.

Westminstenders: Local Elections Madness
BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2019 21:14

Thinking back in history ....
Has there ever been such a disfunctional UK / GB / English government (going back centuries) ?

Seems every week a new self-made disaster

Can even the Tory Party, the cockroaches of British Politics, survive the radioactive fallout on the political wasteland they have created with Brexit ?

Unfortunately, looks like they will take the country down with them

1tisILeClerc · 01/05/2019 21:14

{Could China have stipulated that they wouldn't talk trade unless we got rid of the plonker threatening them?}

The UK is not the slightest threat to China.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2019 21:15

Hearing the name Mordant always makes me think of a Harry Potter villain
It fits

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2019 21:15

They felt insulted, not threatened
Possibly their sides ached with laughter, too

1tisILeClerc · 01/05/2019 21:18

Who was talking about the UK returning to be the global manufacturing powerhouse in the referendum? Forgive me for thinking it is not likely.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2019 21:20

After the successful recall petitition booting out former Labour MP Fiona Onasanya
(many other MPs also deserve to be convicted of perverting the course of justice)

Labour Whips@labourwhips

The opposition Chief Whip, Rt Hon Nick Brown MP announces in the chamber that he will move the writ for the Peterborough by-Election tomorrow, meaning it will be held on Thursday 6 June.

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