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Brexit

Westminstenders: Local Elections Madness

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 27/04/2019 22:37

This week has gone from banging your head against the wall to wanting to bang your head through it.

Labour have voted to support a 2nd ref as their EU election campaign strategy. Only for Corbyn to ignore it. And a row has broken out.

Change UK seem well on track to make everyone else look professional and to look as 'liberal elite' as humanly possible in a real life reverse paraody of themselves.

The Brexit Party is going from strength to strength with the most wtf candidates imaginable and Farage is happy cos his mate is coming to tea with the Queen.

The Liberal Democrats have decided that anti semitism is OK in an effort to keep Labour seats.

And the Conservatives. Where to start? Probably with the Tory Leadership Election infighting which looks suspiciously as if its now breached national security.

As for Brexit. No one really wants to talk about it. Local elections are next week. May is now apparently supporting the Malthouse Compromise. Be warned, it is difficult to see it as anything but a Trojan Horse for No Deal. Not that everyone has worked this out yet. But until we have the blood bath of the local elections over and done with on Thursday, don't expect much to happen.

Then expect the Tories to lose their minds...

OP posts:
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DGRossetti · 28/04/2019 11:35

Being undecided is probably the single most effective weapon voters have. Maybe the only weapon.

I must admit that I'm surprised with the rise of social medai - sites like MySpace, and Beboo, that there hasn't been more of an effort by activists to promote a campaign of deliberately misleading pollsters. It would be an awesome demonstration of non-violent protest. I easily imagine Gandhi suggesting it, as he spoke out to a descendant generation from an Apple advert, spinning his cloth.

(Now I'm not suggesting I'm like Gandhi, that's for others Grin ...)

bellinisurge · 28/04/2019 12:24

Current view of my cat and, frankly, everything, as she gets comfy and disregards anything I might wish to do.

Westminstenders: Local Elections Madness
bellinisurge · 28/04/2019 12:29

Good news. She's now comfy.

She watched with an imperious stare as a local Tory canvasser come to our door and posted a leaflet on an important local green issue. Tories have spotted an opportunity to get positive press by taking this view in a Labour heartland that has been Labour for generations at the local elections.

Westminstenders: Local Elections Madness
DarlingNikita · 28/04/2019 13:08

Thanks Red. PMK.

woodpigeons · 28/04/2019 13:17

My experience is about 5 years out of date but at the university where I worked Chinese, but a significant number of Japanese, student numbers were dropping due mainly to difficulty in getting visas. Many were going to Australia or the US instead.
Strenuous recruitment efforts in other Asian countries, Latin America and Africa produced very few students. Many were given scholarships or bursaries to try to increase future student numbers but this had little, or no, effect.
The fact that large numbers of HMOs are still for sale in the town suggests things have not improved.
Staff numbers were also being cut due to lack of funds. This had a significant effect in all subjects but particularly in the partly practical subject I taught, where a lot of essential face to face contact with students was no longer possible.
This was not a Russell Group university but a solid red brick with previously a large number of overseas students.
Liam Fox’s aspirations seem, IMO, as practical as the massive trade deals he was going to make. The last deal one I heard about was with Jamaica. Heartening to know we’ll be OK for sugar and rum. We’ll definitely need the rum.

NoCryingInEngineering · 28/04/2019 13:25

No EU polling cards here yet & no idea who I'll vote for in the locals. The only leaflet we've had through is the Tories (who actually seem to run a fairly functional council and ironically are bringing previously outsourced road repairs back in house to improve service).

PiLs, who are normally solid Tory voters but also strong Remainers are very cheery about being able to vote for "the other Johnson" in the EU elections

1tisILeClerc · 28/04/2019 13:34

{Staff numbers were also being cut due to lack of funds.}
Obviously not relevant to this thread but I am not convinced it is 'lack' of funds but more an issue of senior managements opting for 'baubles' and working the way up the ranking rather than providing a really solid skilled and motivated lecturing base. Millions spent on 'trinkets' and 'prestige' but cut back the lecturers.

borntobequiet · 28/04/2019 13:45

If there were already a LD MEP in my region, I’d vote LD in the Euros - because there’s already a vote on the ground. But there isn’t, so CUK for me.

woodpigeons · 28/04/2019 13:47

Well that’s part of it LeClerc.
The senior management were about as unrealistic and incapable as our government.
Apart from vanity projects, they spent a great deal of money on unnecessary things like going enmasse to countries like Mauritius where there were obviously thousands of people with the means and desire to be students at their university.
More like a very expensive holiday for all the top brass.
I wonder if Fox has made a trade deal with Mauritius yet ?
I’m glad to be out of it. I could draw so many comparisons with what’s happening to the country.
All sense seems to desert those in top positions.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 28/04/2019 13:52

It's very evident the Tories have run out of money. Local elections leaflets used to be glossy and plentiful. This year weve had two, both of which look as though they've been run off a students printer. They have also been delivering them to the wrong wards. Hmm

Tanith · 28/04/2019 13:55

Locally, someone doctored the text on a Tory leaflet and posted it through selected people’s doors. Most realised it was a spoof and dismissed it in their various ways, but I was amused to see a post from one outraged Tory voter declaring they would never vote for the Conservatives again unless they removed “BumFun” from their manifesto Grin

1tisILeClerc · 28/04/2019 13:59

{All sense seems to desert those in top positions.}

It's the 'climbing the greasy pole' and putting more grease on it below them to prevent followers.
The UK HAD an excellent reputation for it's universities but this is being eroded by a combination of governmental activities, and by changing the 'function' of many universities.
The old notion of 'hanging out' and getting used to being an independent person in year 1, followed by subsequent years of learning properly has been killed by the massive fees and monetarising the whole setup.

Peregrina · 28/04/2019 14:10

it would strengthen the hard right wing of the Tories and the increasingly authoritarian trend in the country

Now if the moderate Tories did defect either to the Tiggers or to sit as genuinely Independents or to become New Tories, then that would scupper Johnson and Co. Will they have the guts to do so?

MadAboutWands · 28/04/2019 14:39

PMK

phpolly · 28/04/2019 14:40

.

MadAboutWands · 28/04/2019 14:49

I think the reality is that few people are able to put their hands up and say ‘sorry I got it wrong. I thought we could have all the bits we wanted wo all the bits we didn’t want. And actually we cant’.
And because of that, people will be happier to accept No Deal, with all its hardships, than to look like a fool.
Add to that the horror of maybe be associated with the opposite party as Labour is more and more coming out as the ‘Remainers’ option (because they support a second referendum when it is clear that Remain and revoke is a unicorn in itself).

Just now, No Deal looks like the most likely option for me. Unless the two coming elections are so damaging to the Conservative party that a second referendum happens and it gives us a clearer answer. (Caveat: if the result is still a 52/48 type of result, regardless if it’s in support of leave or remain or any other option, I think the situation will be the same and we will end up with No Deal)

1tisILeClerc · 28/04/2019 14:58

{because they support a second referendum when it is clear that Remain and revoke is a unicorn in itself}

You have to consider what is possible with respect to the EU. The UK has stepped out of the driving seat.
Revoke and staying in the EU is legally possible for a while longer and it is obvious that the UK government haven't a bloody clue.
Financial suicide is one hell of a way to 'save face' and until the UK gov or in fact anyone can come up with some damn good plans of how the UK is going to cope with the upheaval of actually leaving the 'leave' intention has more unicorns wandering around it.
Of course the majority of world leaders and economists might just be idiots, but I would tend to think they are not, on balance.
So far the whole 'leave' campaign is about negativity and a supposed wish for the UK to become isolationist. How is North Korea doing on that front?

MadAboutWands · 28/04/2019 15:09

Oh I’m not saying that a No Deal is a good idea. Not that being isolated is a good idea etc...

But it’s not just about politicians isn’t it? So much also depends on the british press and the public reaction.
We have heard so much about ‘Leave means Leave’ and that anything is ‘going against the will of the people’ that it will take A LOT for MPs and the public to accept revoke. And for that to be a good idea.

Just look at the latest poll in the EU. Most countries think that being in the EU is a good idea with over 85% of people agreeing with that. The lowest numbers are around 75% in France (and another country I can’t remember about....).
In the U.K., we are still around a 50/50 ans even then a lot of people who say they want to stay in the EU are doing so out of fear rather than because they fully embrace the European idea.....

1tisILeClerc · 28/04/2019 15:19

{In the U.K., we are still around a 50/50 ans even then a lot of people who say they want to stay in the EU are doing so out of fear rather than because they fully embrace the European idea...}

Fear is a strange word to use. The UK is in the EU now, and has been for many years so what is 'frightening' about it. OR, are you mean fearful of leaving. If that is the case you (or someone) needs to explain with a properly worked out plan how 'leaving' and becoming a tiny isolated country is going to really benefit the UK.
When you have the likes of Fox saying 'there will be great deals' with the USA but they have to remain secret for 4 years it suggests something is not right. If he turned up and said that the USA has signed up to trade deals that are larger than what the UK does with the EU and that it will benefit the UK without any loss of standards you might be talking, but so far nothing like that, and of course you have to 'solve' the NI issue.

Littlespaces · 28/04/2019 15:34

And because of that, people will be happier to accept No Deal, with all its hardships, than to look like a fool.

They already look like fools and will look even more idiotic if they accept No Deal.

bellinisurge · 28/04/2019 15:43

Anyone who supports No Deal deserves no respect from me. It is flat out stupid and I will not fall into the "don't be mean about No Deal supporters " trap.
I'm prepared to compromise and to accept leave in a way that respects our GFA obligations . If you aren't prepared to compromise and start spouting No Deal because you are too afraid to admit this is harder than you were told, you are an idiot.

DGRossetti · 28/04/2019 16:42

Whole article. Luckily in plenty of time to avoid voting Labour ....

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/28/labour-hints-at-backing-brexit-deal-without-promise-of-referendum

theguardian.com
Labour hints at backing Brexit deal without promise of referendum
Heather Stewart
6-7 minutes

Labour is prepared to sign up to a Brexit deal with the government without the promise of a referendum attached if cross-party talks make significant progress in the coming days, one of the party’s negotiators has said.

Rebecca Long-Bailey, the shadow business secretary, has been attending the negotiations alongside the shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, and the shadow Brexit secretary, Keir Starmer.

Many at Westminster believe the talks, convened by Theresa May after her deal was rejected three times and due to resume this week, are destined to fail.

But Long-Bailey insisted negotiations had been productive and “gone into a lot of detail”; and hinted that the government was signalling a willingness to compromise on some issues, including workers’ rights.

“There has been movement in specific areas – we’ve had fantastic discussions on workers’ rights, for example, and the government seems quite amenable to moving towards what I’ve been asking for. We’re waiting at the moment to see if that turns into pens on paper,” she told Sky News’s Sophy Ridge.

Asked if a second Brexit referendum was a “red line” for Labour in the talks, Long-Bailey said: “I wouldn’t couch it in terms of a second referendum; but our party policy has always been that firstly we want to get a Brexit deal that puts our economy and living standards first and protects our environmental protections, workplace protections, health and safety standards.”

“We want a customs union arrangement in order to keep our borders open, so that our manufacturing industry isn’t detrimentally affected, and we keep the movement of goods flowing as freely as possible. And we want a strong single market relationship.”

She added: “If we don’t get a deal that satisfies those objectives – if it’s a damaging deal, a damaging Tory Brexit deal, or there’s a risk of us moving towards a no deal – in that circumstance, we’ve said that all options should be on the table, and that includes campaigning for a public vote.”

Her careful recital of the party’s conference motion will infuriate MPs and activists pushing for Labour to make a referendum a central part of its policy platform for next month’s European parliament elections.

The manifesto for the European elections, which the government had hoped to cancel if it struck a deal swiftly enough, is due to be discussed at a meeting of Labour’s ruling National Executive Committee (NEC) on Tuesday.

The shadow cabinet is also expected to discuss the issue – and remains divided between advocates of a referendum, including Starmer and Emily Thornberry, and those who believe Labour should also try to appeal to disillusioned Conservative voters, by holding out the prospect of its own form of Brexit.

Starmer said in the House of Commons earlier this month, when Labour backed a motion for a “confirmatory” vote, that “at this late stage it is clear that any Brexit deal agreed in this parliament will need further democratic approval”.

Almost 90 MPs and MEPs wrote to Jeremy Corbyn in advance of the NEC meeting, urging him to ensure that a confirmatory vote is part of the package Labour offers to voters – and a row broke out last week over the text of a campaign leaflet that made no mention of a referendum.

“Labour has already, rightly, backed a confirmatory public vote. The overwhelming majority of our members and voters support this, and it is the democratically established policy of the party,” the letter said. “Our members need to feel supported on doorsteps by a clear manifesto that marks us out as the only viable alternative to Nigel Farage’s Brexit party.”

Discussing progress in the cross-party talks, Long-Bailey hinted that Labour was prepared to shift its ground if it helped to secure a consensus, saying: “We’re not being hugely prescriptive on the minute details of specific elements, because we are willing to be compromising, we are willing to be flexible.”

She was appearing as Labour prepared to press in parliament on Wednesday for the government to declare an “emergency” on climate change.

“It’s quite dramatic, making this assertion on Wednesday, declaring a national emergency in relation to climate and environment – but it’s necessary, because everybody from the Met Office to Nasa, to the intergovernmental panel on climate change, has stated that if we don’t take radical action across the world, not just here in the UK, we’re not going to be able to reverse the damaging effects of climate change,” she said.

“We’ve got to bring our emissions down by 45% compared with 2010 levels by 2030, and reach net-zero, and that requires a national emergency: a mission, if you like.”

Labour’s elections coordinator, Andrew Gwynne, said he expected the party’s governing body, the NEC, to “endorse Labour’s policy that came out of the conference”, but stressed it was up to MPs, not the MEPs being chosen next month, whether there would be a referendum.

“You know, at the end of the day, that’s domestic policy. It is for parliament to decide whether or not a Brexit deal should be put to a confirmatory public vote,” he said.

Meanwhile, the former Brexit minister Steve Baker has claimed any deal that is voted through would cause the government to “collapse” by losing the support of the DUP.

Baker, the deputy chairman of the European Research Group of Eurosceptic backbenchers, told the Sunday Telegraph: “Any [potential] leader who continues to vote for this deal, who accepts it being put through on Labour votes to deliver Brexit in name only, will need to explain how they are going to achieve a confidence and supply arrangement to prop up their government.

“You will find yourself leading a government which collapses if you ram this deal through over the heads of the DUP. I just cannot see how it would be otherwise.”

He added: “This is not just about delivering Brexit, it’s about keeping Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell away from the levers of power.”

RedToothBrush · 28/04/2019 17:21

Well this is being shared on twitter....

Westminstenders: Local Elections Madness
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 28/04/2019 17:24

I vaguely remember her.
Wasn't she a Tory or Ukip candidate a few years ago ?

MissMalice · 28/04/2019 17:25

PMK