Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Why the Irish Border isn't a Remain/EU Plot

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 20/04/2019 10:10

I hope the events of this week give the ERG the kick up the backside over this that they need.

I doubt it will, but I live in hope. The alternative is too horrid to contemplate.

I'll leave this here instead as a reminder of what choice Brexit was always going to come down to.

Happy Easter everyone.

Westminstenders: Why the Irish Border isn't a Remain/EU Plot
OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
lonelyplanetmum · 25/04/2019 20:35

Pretzels-ace post..

But when they speak to no deal mps - they need to start asking:

  1. How long they envisage 'no deal' lasting, 2. When they think it will be OK sovereignty wise for us to start discussing trade with our nearest neighbours and largest trading partners without betraying the will of the people. and
  1. Why the more onerous US rules requiring lower standards in meat and drugs and less consumer protection are not an intrusion into state sovereignty too.( Example investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS) provisions giving ability for US corporations to seek U.K. taxpayers' compensation if government action reduces their profits).
lonelyplanetmum · 25/04/2019 20:36

Pretzels-ace post..

But when they speak to no deal mps - they need to start asking:

  1. How long they envisage 'no deal' lasting, 2. When they think it will be OK sovereignty wise for us to start discussing trade with our nearest neighbours and largest trading partners without betraying the will of the people. and
  1. Why the more onerous US rules requiring lower standards in meat and drugs and less consumer protection are not an intrusion into state sovereignty too.( Example investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS) provisions giving ability for US corporations to seek U.K. taxpayers' compensation if government action reduces their profits).
BoreOfWhabylon · 25/04/2019 20:37

Tatiana Grin

TalkinPaece · 25/04/2019 20:40

In my real world Social Media feed there is a great deal of exhaustion and worry
at work there is just tiredness at the ongoing limbo
and the uncertainty as to whether the hall bookings of 23rd May will happen
and what the outcomes of next week will be

limbo is getting very boring

mathanxiety · 25/04/2019 20:48

Who is there to encourage Stormont's restoration?
Nobody in politics, in truth.
Obviously a huge majority of the citizens of NI want it back and the stalemate broken, as demonstrated by the standing ovation given to the priest at Lyra McKee's funeral. I suspect NI nationalist opinion would really like to see the DUP back down over the Irish Language Act and would support SF over this all the same. GE results last time around gave SF hope that their support is pretty solid. Maybe feelings will be better known after the upcoming local elections in NI on 2 May?

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/local-elections-2019/
A selection of articles that neatly illustrate the way politics works in NI. DUP playing the Orange/Then and Us card, flirting with criminals, ignoring needs such as health care reform. The upcoming elections will be a test of how much this old refrain resonates.

Domestically: The government and opposition do not see it as a necessity. Is it because there were so many problems with corruption (cash/ ash) that it is seen as a double edged sword anyway?Even people like the SNP don't mention having it back do they? Domestically is it seen as a hot potato? ( Sorry to mix swords and potatoes.)
The entire Brexit debate has taken place in an English cultural and political context. The idea that any devolved assembly in the UK would have any input is contradicted by events since the Referendum. Scotland is being dragged against its will out of the EU too.

The government and opposition are completely oblivious to NI.
It is not a hot potato. It is completely invisible and ignored. Nobody knows or cares about corruption or any of the other issues besetting the province. Hence the insistence that NI goes with the UK wherever Brexit takes it. Karen Bradley is a good example of the complete ignorance about NI that prevails. newsgrowl.com/karen-bradley-ignorance-northern-ireland/ Obviously she was appointed by someone who didn't bother looking into her general knowledge either.

Internationally: Are there any countries (US? Canada?) that have said hang on shouldn't decisions about the border on the island of Ireland take place in conjunction with an NI assembly?
Trump wants the UK out of the EU, US vulture capitalists and hedge funds financed both Trump and the Brexit campaign, and US vulture capitalists want to push on from there and demolish the EU.

The US capitalist class is Enemy Number 1 of the EU. Demolition and destruction are the necessary precursors to profit for them so a resumption of war in NI and terror in Britain is a prospect they can face with equanimity.

The Irish American lobby would like peace in NI and supports the GFA. They would also support SF on issues like the Irish Language Act. But their fallback position is that they favour a reunited Ireland, preferably achieved without bloodshed, which they believe would lead to peace all across the island, albeit maybe not immediately.

Arlene Foster's recent comment that if Ireland were ever reunited she would leave would give them much hope that peace might come sooner rather than later. (Feel sorry for Glasgow though - I imagine this is where she would go).

Ultimately the Irish American lobby wants a poll on reunification. Economic chaos and a return to direct policing from Westminster (troops, special services, internment, suspension of habeas corpus, lots of publicity for NI) might work against the prospect of forcing a poll or they might have the opposite effect. The Irish American lobby are also sensitive to Ireland's economic needs in the context of Brexit and a renewal of fighting in NI, and thus the current support for the backstop and the GFA in general.

The Irish American lobby has always been more openly friendly to Sinn Fein than Dublin has, however, and more openly supportive of a 32 county Ireland.

Iambuffy · 25/04/2019 20:49

Spoken to 2 people who are not going to vote in the local and EU elections.

Lots of people just totally fed up.

They are both older people (retired)

I'm hoping younger voters have registered and will vote.

TatianaLarina · 25/04/2019 20:59

I’d say Brexit was better never than late.

TatianaLarina · 25/04/2019 21:00

Oi, I dunno what that double post was about.

Icantreachthepretzels · 25/04/2019 21:01

It was so good it needed posting twice Tatiana Smile

TatianaLarina · 25/04/2019 21:02

I’ve persuaded my 86 year old aunt with dementia to vote. Which is slightly unethical but then, so is the whole thing.

TatianaLarina · 25/04/2019 21:03

Nah, wasn’t that good. Wine

Icantreachthepretzels · 25/04/2019 21:15

Oh - I had an idea of how TM should troll the 1922, following their demand that she outline her departure for if the deal doesn't pass. She should tell them that, in the event of her deal not making it through the commons, it will go to a public vote - the deal vs the status quo (aka remain). She will step down once the commons have voted through the referendum legislation - so that the brexit deal won't be seen as 'hers' and therefore linked to her own unpopularity.
If neither of these votes pass then she will have to stay in place until such a time as there is less brexit uncertainty, because a leadership contest and a new leader would not be in the best interests of the country whilst our extension was ticking away.

That way they either HAVE to vote for her brexit plan OR vote for a second ref if they want to get rid of her BUT they would then be tied down to the W.A (which brexiteers of the general public hate) or have to sell her deal to the public, if they still wanted to get any kind of brexit.

So to get rid of her they either have to let her get her way or risk brexit altogether. It would be a Pyrrhic victory for her, but a victory none the less.

JQBased · 25/04/2019 21:18

Why is anyone still talking about this? Brexit is dead exactly as I said it would be when we were given the chance to "vote".

TheABC · 25/04/2019 21:26

@JQBased, sadly the Article 50 deadline is still there and we are due to crash out in October. Hence, Brexit is very much alive and kicking.

Iambuffy · 25/04/2019 21:26

jq unless we revoke Brexit is very much alive

RedToothBrush · 25/04/2019 21:29

OK everyone get ready to swear loudly.

Paul Waugh @paulwaugh
Exclusive: Draft Labour euro elxns leaflet makes party look pro-Brexit. MPs, MEPs and members in full revolt over no mention of 2nd referendum.
m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/fury-as-corbyn-euro-elections-leaflet-suggests-labour-backs-brexit_uk_5cc1e94be4b031dc07ef6b3a
Fury As Corbyn European Elections Leaflet Suggests Labour Backs Brexit
Hand-out 'fudge' blasted for making no mention of policy to push for second referendum.

Jeremy Corbyn is facing a fierce backlash from Labour members after a draft leaflet for the European elections said the party would press ahead with Brexit.

The leaflet, passed to HuffPost UK, makes no mention of the party’s policy to push for a second referendum on quitting the EU, was sent out to MEPs on Thursday.

One Labour insider said: “MEPs were not given these leaflets to review, they were just told: this is what the party is printing and this is what they would have to put out.”

Paul Waugh*@paulwaugh*
Shadow cabinet not consulted over content. MEPs also left out of process, sources say.

Also, @Andrew_Adonis mystery finally cleared up: he was told he faced deselection as MEP candidate unless he signed a statement apologising for previous views and stuck to the line on Brexit

What a fucking farcical stitch up.

Do you reckon the leaflets have already gone to press, cos I do.

OP posts:
TalkinPaece · 25/04/2019 21:30

That is Labour wiped out at both ends of May then Hmm

Iambuffy · 25/04/2019 21:31

Oh ffs

NoWordForFluffy · 25/04/2019 21:33

It's all so depressing. Before Easter it felt like there was impetus and some sense of purpose. It's now two weeks since the granting of the extension and every day of silence re planning / talks / some-fucking-thing happening makes me think that none of them actually give a shit. Maybe it's just the fact it's coincided with me going back to work after 5 weeks off, so I'm a bit 'meh' generally, but it really feels - to me - like we've gone / we're going backwards in our planning, not forwards.

Icantreachthepretzels · 25/04/2019 21:34

Well - at least I know not to vote for labour now. Unless the party can make him change his mind. So now I just need to decide between Lib Dems and Change UK.

Quintella · 25/04/2019 21:35

Corbyn proving once and for all that he's not a fan of party democracy. Fuck him and fuck Milne. Adonis should have stood his ground and accepted deselection. He can fuck off too.

NoWordForFluffy · 25/04/2019 21:35

Jeez. Hideous cross post there.

I reckon they're printed too. We're doomed.

Iambuffy · 25/04/2019 21:37

Mimsy bastard quisling fucks!

So. Change UK then.

Christ on a bike.

BercowsSilkTie · 25/04/2019 21:39

I admit I'm not following much now that things are less intense. I check in and skim read, check the news, worry a little, wonder wtf, and also wonder where the information about the Eu candidates is? I've had nothing through my door. No polling card either except for the locals. And I really don't know how to vote there. There's an excellent gender critical pro-EU labour candidate but you know, labour. The Lib Dem's are pro-Eu but woke. Greens also woke but the local candidate is a good woman who is a passionate campaigner. I don't know her stance on Europe though. I'd poke my eyes out rather than vote Tory. Maybe I'll have to go back on Facebook to find out what's happening locally.

How do you think the local votes will go? I appreciate this may vary a lot friending on the area but as a general thing, do you think there'll be a big swing away from the tories and labour? A resurgence of lib dems? Lower turnout than normal? Less older people voting? More younger people getting involved? Too many people thinking fuck it and we end up with similar numbers again?

TalkinPaece · 25/04/2019 21:42

Bercows
I suspect that every sensible candidate is waiting till after 2nd May
AND
its still not certain that the Euros will take place - the Government has till Tuesday next week
and if they do not happen
its hard Brexit on June 1st

and still the chance of cliff edge on 31st October Sad Angry

Swipe left for the next trending thread