Westminstenders: Why the Irish Border isn't a Remain/EU Plot

[RedToothBrush]

I hope the events of this week give the ERG the kick up the backside over this that they need.

I doubt it will, but I live in hope. The alternative is too horrid to contemplate.

I'll leave this here instead as a reminder of what choice Brexit was always going to come down to.

Happy Easter everyone.

I was going to write to my MP who is opposing things to point out that the WA WILL be signed if the UK wants any trade with the EU in future, whether it is signed 'voluntarily' or after a crash out. To be honest I can't be bothered to waste the electrons.

David Lidington this morning:-

Two Conservative local election candidates and a woman honoured with an MBE are among 40 new self-professed Tory members who have shared or endorsed racist and inflammatory Facebook posts including Islamophobic material, the Guardian has learned.

The torrent of racist posts include references to Muslims as “bin bag wearing individuals”, calls for the “cult” of Islam to be banned and the Qur’an being branded an “evil book”.

One female Tory supporter even called for a boycott of Muslim-owned shops and endorsed another comment labelling the religion’s followers “sub-human” and “cockroaches”.

Both of the council candidates – one of who claimed “Islamophobia was not surprising” in a rant about Muslims and said he would celebrate the death of anti-Brexit campaigner Gina Miller – have now been suspended.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/25/tory-candidates-suspended-over-racist-and-inflammatory-posts?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I don't doubt that May is motivated by a sense of public duty. It doesn't exclude her being totally mistaken in what she understands as her duty though.

Sun 'exclusive'
www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit/8938714/nigel-farage-brexit-party-general-election/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Nigel Farage reveals for the first time his Brexit Party WILL stand in next General Election

In which the bleedy obvious is stated.

Sir Edward Leigh MP @ edwardleighmp
When a vacancy occurs I intend to stand for the office of Speaker. I would be a traditional speaker who does not speak much. Like a judge I would, by my conduct and dress, submerge my personality into the office.

I would prioritise serious debate. This may mean time limits of not less than five minutes in debates. Urgent questions should be held when needed: when there is something urgent and important to be discussed.

I oppose the costly, unnecessary, and environmentally unsound demolition of Richmond House and the creation of a replica chamber. When a decant becomes necessary, it should be as short as possible into a temporary chamber.

I would be rigidly impartial.

I oppose any move against the present Speaker who must be allowed to retire at a time of his choosing. In order to protect the office of Speaker, this issue must not be politicised.

Translation:
"I oppose any move against the present Speaker and politicising the office of Speaker, whilst simultaneously launching my manifesto for my candidacy to be elected as the next speaker which includes massive politicised digs at the conduct of the current Speaker."

Give me fucking strength.

{Except I get a bit antsy when folk say we need to sign the WA eventually anyway.}

The leaders of 27 European countries are insisting on it's signing.
The UK government has stuck it's hand in the blender, the wheels are in motion.
While the UK is acting as it is, it is not an 'asset' to the EU.

Revoke is the #1 choice for most of us here
However, if we do Brexit, then the WA has to be signed, whether it is a very soft SM Brexit or a CU
Or even after a No Deal - if we then want to negotiate on anything with the EU

Or even after a No Deal - if we then want to negotiate on anything with the EU

My worry would be if we got No Deal that with the Tories and their total lurch to the right, we would turn our backs on the EU completely and attempt to throw our lot in with the USA - totally. Being a vassal state or lacking sovereignty would not matter a jot to right wing Tories - they seem not to be able to get enough of Trump style US culture.

Just a copy and paste:

" If you can’t take a joke you shouldn’t have come to London right now, because there is political farce everywhere. In truth, though, it’s not very funny. It’s actually tragic. What we’re seeing is a country that’s determined to commit economic suicide but can’t even agree on how to kill itself. It is an epic failure of political leadership.

Seriously, the United Kingdom, the world’s fifth-largest economy — a country whose elites created modern parliamentary democracy, modern banking and finance, the Industrial Revolution and the whole concept of globalization — seems dead-set on quitting the European Union, the world’s largest market for the free movement of goods, capital, services and labor, without a well-conceived plan, or maybe without any plan at all.

Old article but just about sums it up really:

www.nytimes.com/2019/04/02/opinion/brexit-news.html

{ we would turn our backs on the EU completely and attempt to throw our lot in with the USA}

While the USA may be able to supply foodstuffs like meat, it would not be possible economically to source vegetables and so many other things that we currently get from the EU.
The time for shipment is just one aspect, and of course the quantity required isn't exactly sitting on shelves in the USA so would take years to ramp up.
I am 'abandoning hope' and trusting the EU demands that citizens rights are fully protected 'at the end of the day' as most other aspects have turned to shit now.

I hope you are right 1tis......

My immediate concern is to see the Tories thrashed in next week's elections. That will buoy me up for about 1 day.

Well I think the consequences have be felt before they become real for most people.
Tired of playing Cassandra's part. Let them find out... I'm 'prepared', mentally if nothing else...

mother No, the EU have repeatedly said they won't reopen the WA
It's even one of the conditions of the extension.

Leavers refuse to believe them, but Remainers really need to listen to the organisation to which they wish to belong.

Above all, the EU would never drop the backstop,
because they know that at any time we could get an ERG PM, even a coalition with Farage
In that case, a binding international treaty like the WA would be the only way to prevent a hard border and protect the SM - because the GFA didn't even consider Brexit

The E27 provide about 50% of our foreign trade

They think that any British govt after No Deal would be forced by economic collapse to sign up to the WA within 6 months, or at least its main 3 terms : Backstop, exit bill, expat rights

Jeremy Hunt popping up to say it will all be 'fine' for the UK to leave with no deal and would be better than revoking is hardly helpful (Independent online). As usual, half the sentence makes sense but he ignores so many other factors, such as they are impossible, or not in anyone's lifetime.

While the USA may be able to supply foodstuffs like meat, it would not be possible economically to source vegetables and so many other things that we currently get from the EU.

You've failed to mention the USA has lower ethics for meat production. I dont want to be buying pork that's been treated inhumanely when it was a pig.

The trouble with the entire concept of a 'no deal' exit is that - as with everything else brexit - it's a stupid soundbite that actually has no depth or meaning.

When they say 'no deal' - what do they mean? No deal forever? turn our backs on Europe and never speak of them again? Or do they expect a deal at some point? At what point do they expect that deal? what do they think it will look like? If the 52% voted for no deal in 2016 (I know I know...) then how will we know whether the eventual deal is the one they wanted, or a betrayal of that most sacred of cows?

WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK DO THEY ACTUALLY MEAN BY NO DEAL? And when will the taking up of trade negotiations no longer be a betrayal and an act of treason against a pure brexit?

They need to define their terms. And when they do that .... they will discover that a) we cannot survive without some kind of trade deal with the EU because we will be so short on food and medication so that we MUST eventually strike some kind of deal and that b) we can't start trade talks for that deal WITHOUT FIRST SIGNING THE W.A.

which is, presumably, why they are not bothering to define what they mean by 'no deal' and how long we have to live with 'no deal' for brexit be classed as true brexit. Same as every other fucking idea that they've had.

But when they do vox pops and speak to no deal mps - they need to start asking how long they envisage 'no deal' lasting, and when they think it will be OK sovereignty wise for us to start discussing trade with our nearest neighbours and largest trading partners without betraying the will of the people.

And if people argue that no deal will hurt the EU more than us, so they'll cave first, they need to be told 'that's incorrect' and not allowed a come back on it. There really needs to be a clamp down on people being allowed to spout their wildest wishes as fact - and a tightening up of questioning them on what they mean by their various soundbites.

They won't be able to answer. And sunlight will be the best disinfectant for this madness.

If anyone wants to sign:
chng.it/Jx84WKrG54
petition to stop Donald trump coming to the UK

I've posted this before but it's relevant to post again: Mark Carney warning about "NoDeal". At 5 minutes in he talks about the fallacy of "Article 24" which the Brexiters claim wrongly that the UK will be able to trade under

The comments below the video illustrate the conundrum that Icantreachtheprezels outlines: all the rabid Brexiters positively salivating at the idea of leaving with No Deal but not actually articulating what they mean by that

Living in glorious isolation? Not importing or exporting? Nothing going to or from the EU? Having all "fresh" fruit air freighted in from the Americas? Re-creating the Empire?

{Whisky2014}
I left out the desirability of stuff from the USA because my point was really the sheer volume that would need to be transported and there is no way it could be flown over.
Of course the concept of 'no deal' is rubbish, but there are virtually none in the HoC/cabinet who would tell it 'straight'. A no deal means about 6 - 9 months of frantic 'dealing' to get the major legal hurdles dealt with, while many things descend into chaos as the 'forgotten' elements get remembered and flagged as big problems. The EU who have put thousands of hours into the project are I believe sceptical that even 2 years is too short for a 'transition' period during which it is mostly discussing and planning the actual process without a vast change to the arrangements as they are now. The end of transition would be the 'jolt' as reality becomes really real.

PMK. Better late than never.

I’d say Brexit was better never than late.