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Brexit

Westminstenders: Why the Irish Border isn't a Remain/EU Plot

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 20/04/2019 10:10

I hope the events of this week give the ERG the kick up the backside over this that they need.

I doubt it will, but I live in hope. The alternative is too horrid to contemplate.

I'll leave this here instead as a reminder of what choice Brexit was always going to come down to.

Happy Easter everyone.

Westminstenders: Why the Irish Border isn't a Remain/EU Plot
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havingtochangeusernameagain · 24/04/2019 19:18

Oh well I suppose as far as the Scottish indyref is concerned, they voted to remain in the UK and then they voted to remain in the EU. If both are not possible, they need to choose which they want.

I wish the Remain areas in England got the same opportunity...

But actually I don't. Another referendum - I bet people in Scotland really want that. No more referendums ever please.

havingtochangeusernameagain · 24/04/2019 19:18

I wonder if Sturgeon is trying to put on the pressure for a soft Brexit. No she isn't, she just wants independence and to be the FM who achieved it.

Littlespaces · 24/04/2019 19:26

Referendums are like saying to a random person on the street -

Would you make me a cordon bleu meal?
Would you perform brain surgery on my family member?
Could you just park that combine harvester please?
How about designing that bridge?

Hey we don't need experts. They are so last century.

RedToothBrush · 24/04/2019 19:55

Christopher Hope@christopherhope
Members of the 1922 executive voted tonight nine to seven on a show of hands not to allow a vote of no confidence in Theresa May next month, @SebastianEPayne reports.

And - guess what - Julian Smith, the Government chief whip, was in the room for the meeting.

Incredible.

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HesterThrale · 24/04/2019 20:07

This happy little video re Boris Johnson court case fills me with hope.

mobile.twitter.com/MarcusJBall/status/1121039148293472257

Pudner · 24/04/2019 20:09

Here is the clip of the priest's taking the politicians to task at Lyra McKee's funeral. Arlene was looking very uncomfortable. The DUP and SF have got to get their act together. The response of the mourners was very powerful. Poor Lyra. It is heartbreaking Sad.
twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1121045164166975488?s=19

wheresmymojo · 24/04/2019 20:23

Don't know if this has been shared already but this is a screen shot of one of Peston's updates.

Cross party talks are up the shitter...

Westminstenders: Why the Irish Border isn't a Remain/EU Plot
lonelyplanetmum · 24/04/2019 20:25

This happy little video re Boris Johnson court case fills me with hope.

Stringing together what we have seen reported before. A pre action letter was sent before Christmas. Johnson's lawyers were reported not to have responded.

In JAn/Feb? The claim was presented in the court to see if there was a preliminary case to answer?

  1. The fact that Johnson now has lawyers involved; and
  2. That Marcus is happy must mean the case is proceeding!

Yay - BJ's is only one example of a lying politician - but it's a proper warning shot to all the others.

The sanction is a custodial term I believe. Can you imagine!

RedToothBrush · 24/04/2019 20:29

All the politicians look uncomfortable throughout that clip. It's really satisfying to watch tbh.

On a lighter note: DS who is 4 and not yet at school can now correctly identify both Mr Speaker and The Prime Minister by sight without prompting.

Given that in 2015 59% of adults couldn't name David Cameron as PM, I think my work as a parent educating their child about politics is almost complete.

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HesterThrale · 24/04/2019 20:33

Yes lonelyplanetmum it would be very gratifying to see justice being done against a politician who’s committed crimes. Particularly so in this case.

On a related note, I also see that Chris Davies MP is facing a recall petition.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-wales-politics-48038005

Iambuffy · 24/04/2019 20:37

Ds2 when saying trump does an under warm fart.

Very pleasing.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/04/2019 20:45

red Top-class parenting 👊🏼
now if you could parent the MPs a bit, to get us out of this mess

RedToothBrush · 24/04/2019 21:05

My son is (generally) very well behaved and never really had tantrums. I'd have no chance with this crop of politicians.

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countrygirl99 · 24/04/2019 21:06

There is a village near us that has a well developed co-buying network. Every year one lady organises for OH to do work at a number of houses at a discount, works for him as he has no travel time between jobs. There is one person, a previous UKIP candidate, who refuses to be involved and expects OH to do work for him at some other time for the discounted rate. OH took great pleasure in pointing out how much easier it is for a big trading block to get a good deal and no he wouldn't be getting the discount the big group does.

borntobequiet · 24/04/2019 21:15

I don’t know if an under warm fart is better than or worse than a normally warm fart. Possibly a chilling sensation.

Iambuffy · 24/04/2019 21:19

Under arm!
🤣🤣

PinkieTuscadero · 24/04/2019 21:43

I see Andrew Adonis is now backing Brexit. Must have been offered the MEP nomination in exchange for his principles...

www.facebook.com/LordAndrewAdonis/?tn=%2Cd%2CP-R&eid=ARC6FWdI5BbPtoOAUrN1CyCWuOIU5vCVikxuUtdwwla75zW4iq_DNZZNhBVOSkBaguixeVuJCYEw7MH_

BigChocFrenzy · 24/04/2019 22:01

Adonis may have decided that the chance of Revoke is still so small, whereas the risk of No Deal is still high
and the UK hard right is gaining strength

Most in the E27 and EU Commission gave up on Remain several months ago
They now mainly want to avoid the UK descending into total chaos and anger

Brexit Analysis:European Policy Centre, Brussels

http://www.epc.eu/documents/uploads/pub91722brexit--nostablee_equilibrium1.pdf?doc_id=2135

From the EU’s perspective, any outcome of Brexit will be suboptimal.

Its preferred outcome,
the UK as a member state that is fully committed to the European project,
is, in the foreseeable future, not available.

The second- best outcome, a close and positive relationship with the UK, also increasingly appears out of reach.
....
Could the EU perhaps benefit from isolating itself from the UK’s chaos for a certain period of time,
lest it continues to divert attention and resources away from other pressing issues?

BigChocFrenzy · 24/04/2019 22:04

😂
Lord Buckethead™@LordBuckethead

BUCKETEERS: I HAVE NOT YET OFFICIALLY COMMITTED TO RUN nor accepted any funding because after being asked to stand in the election,
the response was so big that some fear my being on-ballot could actually split the vote.

Insane!
Considering alternatives.

Songsofexperience · 24/04/2019 22:11

Some more cheerful news (not that surprising tbh)

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nuclear-war-threat-trump-russia-arms-cold-war-house-lords-a8883976.html

horseshit · 24/04/2019 22:12

That entire Buckethead tweet is hilarious, but what really, truly gets me is that goddamn ™️.

And I’ve had such a delightfully Brexit-free week.

wherearemychickens · 24/04/2019 22:47

Thanks for the update on the Boris case Hester - I was wondering about that the other day. Will be very pleased if they find him guilty & he has to serve time for it.

mathanxiety · 24/04/2019 22:47

lonelyplanetmum
As I've mentioned before.. if you think about reading a history essay about events 300 years ago. (Imagine Stormont and Westminster were constituently the same back then.) If you read that:

1. Stormont collapsed for unrelated reasons; then
2. within months Westminster decided to make a decision which hugely affected NI whilst Stormont was suspended.

An equivalent event or series of events actually happened.

  1. Acts of Union 1800-1801, Ireland directly governed from Westminster, Irish Parliament eliminated.
  2. Famine mid 1840s.
  3. Agrarian 'terrorism' from then on allied with political campaigns resulted in land reform (farmers allowed to purchase land from landlords) and the development of sentiment in favour of Home Rule, eventually discarded in favour of outright independence.

Restoration of Stormont might not alter Brexit but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

If you are in NI do you feel that a properly functioning Stormont would give you more of a voice re your life, the border and the risks ?

From here I think it looks that morally more effort to restore Stormont would be the correct consensual and transparent thing to do....

...If you add in that NI politicians gave the Westminster gov their majority in return for cash?

I'm not saying it is opportunism but do think it looks like opportunism from an historical perspective.

The suspension of Stormont has contributed to the rise of New IRA violence just as the voicelessness of generations past contributed to the violence of the Troubles. In both cases the lack of a voice and the feeling that Westminster and the Unionists were in cahoots to deliberately keep a nationalist voice silenced and powerless to control the welfare or destiny of the nationalist community fanned the embers that had always been there.

Restoration of Stormont is a necessity but the Tories survive politically only as long as they don't poke the DUP bear, so it is a very remote possibility. The only thing that could embolden the Tories is the prospect of a Labour win in a GE, weirdly, as a Labour win would be anathema to the DUP. But they have no motivation to intervene in NI - nationalist violence always makes Tory patriotic solidity look appealing even to people who might vote Labour. Overall, the DUP hold the cards here, which in turn alienates Republican factions in NI, so we have a cycle going that will result in violence and chaos before it is over.

All depressingly unnecessary. TM's GE was the single most stupid political mistake in recent history.

mathanxiety · 24/04/2019 23:50

BigChoc

It has been shocking to see how the Tory party has been captured by the far right at grass roots level and how the Parliamentary party has moved to the right

This is how the GOP was taken over, via a culture war, despite the absence of religion / abortion as an issue here

The problem that unites the militants who voted for Trump and Brexit in both the UK and the US is white male fragility/racism. Immigration, anti-Muslim feeling and the sort of masculinity that results in phrases like 'our women' are at play here. The many prosecutions of Muslim grooming gangs and revelations of ineptitude and political correctness on the part of social services and police have played a role in this. In the US a big swathe of blue collar and southern opinion couldn't get over the sight of a black resident and first lady.

While religion/role of religion in the public square and abortion were outwardly an issue that fed Trump support in the US, I feel that for 'white evangelical protestant', we can read 'racist' and 'opponent of Muslim immigration', for the most part instead of primarily 'opponent of abortion' or 'person who seeks to create a Christian ethos in the US'.

Trump's success lies in stoking fear in a particular demographic and hoodwinking many others. The culture war is all about identity politics and opposition to perceived threats. It's easier to be united against something than for something (see also Brexit/the EU).

lonelyplanetmum · 25/04/2019 05:02

^^ I'm awake absurdly early of course..

Restoration of Stormont is a necessity but the Tories survive politically only as long as they don't poke the DUP bear, so it is a very remote possibility.

I don't understand the complexities of NI politics.i just think that from a history book perspective it looks shabby and dodgy that all this is going on at the precise moment there's no NI assembly. Surely other countries internationally perceive this as being a weird coincidence?

Who is there to encourage Stormont's restoration?

Domestically: The government and opposition do not see it as a necessity. Is it because there were so many problems with corruption (cash/ ash) that it is seen as a double edged sword anyway?Even people like the SNP don't mention having it back do they? Domestically is it seen as a hot potato? ( Sorry to mix swords and potatoes.)

Internationally: Are there any countries (US? Canada?) that have said hang on shouldn't decisions about the border on the island of Ireland take place in conjunction with an NI assembly?

Or is it that there are too many vested interests from other countries seeking to harvest the profits from a damaged U.K.?

Perhaps other countries just think well NI could be represented at Westminster if Sinn Fein discussed ways of coming to take up seats?

On the one hand, we have unprecedented political deceit and double standards with politicians having sold us false 'benefits' of leaving the EU. On the other hand we have SF refusing to show double standards and take up their seats.

There is principle when you don't need it -and lack of principle when you do.