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Brexit

Westminstenders: A False Sense of Security

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/04/2019 22:34

The new exit date, unless we agree a deal sooner, is the 31st October.

It seems ages away, but its runs the risk of a false sense of security too.

The first deadline is May 22nd. The Conservative Party would dearly like to avoid European Elections. They are already liable to face wipe out in the early May local elections, as the party was at its peak in 2015 under Cameron when there were last elections.

The EU elections have the added danger of proportional representation meaning UKIP and The Brexit Party could win seats from them. This is despite polling suggesting that Ukip and the Brexit Party are unlikely to reach the high watermark of 2015 and this could lead to fewer UKIP style MEPs this time round.

The liklihood of a deal by 22nd May is low though. Especially given how well Tory - Labour talks are going. The potential for a deal seems remote in the next few weeks.

The next deadline falls on 30th June. If we do have EU elections, the next target for the Tory Party is the end of June to get a deal before the newly elected MEPs can take their seats. However if the goal is unachievable before EU elections, it seems unlikely that agreement will be found in the next 30 days unless there is a major change of heart amongst the hardcore ERG and the DUP. Labour will want to see the Tories humiliated too much.

May who says she will go, will face another wave of pressure to resign during May and June. Messages out of No10, though not May herself, had indicated an exit around 22nd May on the condition a deal was done. Crafty as ever, what May actually said was she would stay on until we reached the second stage of Brexit and had effectively left. This now falls as late as Oct 31st, thus killing plans for a summer Tory leader election.

Once we get past June though, time for a deal, any deal starts to become very limited. Parliament only sits until mid July. Here May hits another problem. The two year parliamentary session ends. There has been talk of it being extended but the DUP have firmly said no to this.

This means when parliament is due to return in September we have an issue. To start a new session May will need a majority to pass a Queens Speech. If the DUP and Hardline ERGers withdraw support in protest at May still being PM what happens? Can May win support from elsewhere. It seems unlikely.

At this point the question of a General Election looms large. And we only have six weeks from then before we exit the EU. If a GE is triggered then, the risk of no deal is extremely high, which might encourage some to support May from across the aisle to prevent parliament from being shut and losing those crucial six weeks.

The danger over the next few weeks, is there is a false sense of there being lots of time left. The reality is our real deadline might be in effect the end of the parliamentary session in mid July. After that all bets are off.

The date of 31st October isn't the one you should keep your eyes on.

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UtterlyPerfectCartoonGiraffe · 13/04/2019 13:32

This is vaguely outing but only if you’re my mp Grin Before the original Brexit date, I wrote to my Tory mp asking her to consider her remain constituents as well in her voting, as our area was almost a 50/50 split. She usually votes with the party line, although has never voted for no deal thank goodness. Yesterday I got a rather lovely letter in response - genuinely! In summary, she had voted remain in the referendum but wanted to respect the result and find the best deal that protects us outside the eu while keeping good links with the eu. And she promises to give consideration to her constituents views.

It’s heartening the she was originally a remainer, and that she continues to refuse the vote for no deal, and the letter reads a lot better than other responses I’ve heard on here from some other posters’ Mps.

QueenOfThorns · 13/04/2019 13:37

What a lovely (if slightly chilly) day! I’m going to join my fellow Westminstenders in a bit of gardening this afternoon. Runner and French beans getting planted in pots in the greenhouse, plus I might start hardening my pumpkins off. Our first nematodes of the year have just arrived, so we’re going to give the new veg patch a liberal dowsing with those to try and keep it slug free.

RHTawneyonabus · 13/04/2019 13:41

misti I think I’ve confirmed I’m right!

www.europarl.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/en/your-meps/european_elections/can_i_vote.html

If you are a British citizen living abroad you can vote at general elections and European elections for up to 15 years after you have left the country.

DarlingNikita · 13/04/2019 13:52

PMK. thanks Red.

NoWordForFluffy · 13/04/2019 14:06

@QueenofThorns, are nematodes as good as I've heard? I'm considering them for the allotment as I don't have the hunting time / capability I have in the garden for slimy critters!

I'm impressed you're hardening your pumpkins already as I've got mine on my May sowing list with my squash.

I'll do a second load of dwarf and runner beans and peas then too to extend the cropping season.

I've got loads of gardening / allotment tasks to squeeze in tomorrow actually!

On a voting front, I've got no issues with our LD councillors so will vote for them.

For the EP elections I'll vote for a remain party. I might have to look at the polls and go for the party which is polling strongly and give them my vote.

TalkinPaece · 13/04/2019 14:16

Westminsterenders Gardening corner for any and all who are into such things
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/gardening/3504562-29th-March-Grow-your-own-newcomers-welcome-here

Fluffy
I gave up on nematodes as I use raised beds and have gravel soil so they all die.
Wool granules around plants work better for me.

NoWordForFluffy · 13/04/2019 14:31

TiP, I've seen wool pellets mentioned on an allotment Facebook group I'm on. I'll have a look for some, thank you.

MockerstheFeManist · 13/04/2019 14:31

OK, which one of you is Jeremy Corbyn on a day off down the allotment?

Icantreachthepretzels · 13/04/2019 14:38

The facebook post from Alexander Achminow is a message we really need to start getting out there. It's all about spin (see Dunkirk). A revoke and remain is not a humiliating crawl back - it is the greatest British victory in living memory. Hostile foreign investors and disaster capitalists tried to destroy us, the far right got a toe hold and we beat them back good naturedly, peacefully - we marched, we signed petitions, we crowdfunded, we emailed mps. With the media only vox popping leavers and giving hour after hour and platform after platform to Nigel Farage, and with few friends in parliament - a great grass roots movement rose up and defended their country themselves.
We just need to start talking this way in conversation - framing remain as the path to victory. If we can do it well enough and with enough conviction then we can sweep up all the waverers; the 'we voted out let's just get it done' brigade.

We've seen that facts and logic don't cut it. Emotion is what counts. So far, leave has been the side that has cornered the fuzzy feels. It's time we take them back.

If we're not going to waste the time we've been given, this is what we can do in that time, talk about Britain defeating facists and disaster capitalists by fighting to remain and, if we're successful, turning the whole global tide - leading everyone else to reject the far right in their own country. And the beauty is, everyone can do it and it doesn't cost a thing. We just talk it up until it enters national consciousness.

Ego stroking, patriotism - but this time pointing people in the direction of remain.
And the difference being - remaining would be a defeat of shady investors and the far right, it would be something to genuinely celebrate. Whereas the warm fuzzies of the leave campaign were all lies.

The remain campaigns need to start focusing on making people feel good to be British and to feel good about being British in the EU. That facebook post was great - but we need more of it coming from here.

RHTawneyonabus · 13/04/2019 14:39

Wool pellets are great but very expensive need topping up after rain and your garden will smell a bit like wet sheep. I cut a ring out of a squash bottle and place round the plant filling with sharp sand or grit.

Windowsareforcheaters · 13/04/2019 14:40

@Icantreachthepretzels I think that is a really strong narrative.

Remain isn't retreat it is fighting back against the far right, media manipulation and unhealthy foreign influence.

I'll go with that.

TalkinPaece · 13/04/2019 14:45

Tawney
Wool pellets are great but very expensive need topping up after rain
I but a big bucket for £8 at the start of the season and they do NOT need topping up after rain.
The wool is an irritant to the slugs for months

Pretzels
The Remain campaign in 2016 was shit at explaining why we should vote to stay in
and its been shit at explaining its case ever since
only Led By Donkeys are getting the point across well.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/04/2019 14:53

@Misti Sorry, if your 15 years are up, then you can't vote in the UK in any elections:

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/en/your-meps/europeanelections/cannivote.html

If you are a British citizen living abroad you can vote at general elections and European elections for up to 15 years after you have left the country.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/04/2019 14:53

btw, when did you move ?
I moved last August within the same German state and last month I received the notification that I could vote in the EP elections here, which I have chosen to do

It looks like different countries retain their different voting rules, within the overall set of basic EU voting rights

BigChocFrenzy · 13/04/2019 14:57

Excellent psychology in that strategy, pretzels
Uses nationalist pride without encouraging the far right populists

PigeonofDoom · 13/04/2019 15:07

The wool pellets did nothing for me but make my garden smell of damp sheep. I do live in a bog though, so am inundated with slugs- the only thing that works (bar pellets, which I avoid as we get a lot of frogs) is to grow plants that are prone to slugs in pots. Then I go round picking them off the bottoms of the pots and dispatching them with glee

Butterymuffin · 13/04/2019 15:11

Yes yes yes to the new narrative. There has to be a way to get it across as a victory.

woodpigeons · 13/04/2019 15:16

I have found gardening very difficult. More difficult than when living in Africa where even a stick you stuck in the round grew.
I seem to be fighting against pests, wildlife and extremes of nature.
Last year I decided to grow just strongly flavoured salad leaves in the ground as previously everything that the slugs didn’t get had been eaten by rabbits. Except the salad leaves which they didn’t like.
The extremely hot weather made them bolt before they were very big at all.
I got some rather nasty raised beds to grow spinach. The birds ate it all.
My only success is herbs.
So it seems I either need to stop encouraging wildlife (looking at you squirrels who dug up all my bulbs) or go full scale with raised beds and netting.
The wildlife is staying. The raised beds and netting are too expensive.

I feel sorry for those depending on it as never realised gardening was such a massive compromise.

TalkinPaece · 13/04/2019 15:18

woodpigeons
I feel sorry for those depending on it as never realised gardening was such a massive compromise.
Amen to that
its what politicians do not realise either - about anything

Flowerplower · 13/04/2019 15:18

@NoWordForFluffy I use nematodes and they've made a huge difference - I don't have raised beds, just a veg patch in the garden. I tried beer traps before but they didn't work for me - I caught loads of slugs in the traps but there always seemed to be just as many in the plot. I've never tried wool pellets.

TalkinPaece · 13/04/2019 15:20

@woodpigeons
Do you have space for a polytunnel - I got mine after losing one too many crops to weather and wildlife
I love it - and it means I have much more reliable produce

NoWordForFluffy · 13/04/2019 15:20

We managed to (accidentally) grow a buddleia from a stick last year. It was an old stick, cut from the neglected buddleia, about 3 years before, intended as a planting marker. It's now in the bank at the bottom of the allotment!

NoWordForFluffy · 13/04/2019 15:21

@FlowerPlower, that's good to know. I want to protect my allotment strawberry patch as much as possible!

yolofish · 13/04/2019 15:26

agree, growing veg is bloody hard work and a lot more expensive (at least while we are in the EU!) than just buying them. Homegrown does taste much better though... I am crap at seeds, so tend to buy plug plants, eg 3 courgette and 5 french beans, and just plant those out when it seems to be mild enough. My herb bed seems contrary to all indications though - it's a raised thing on legs, in a fairly shady spot but sage, oregano, thyme and chives all do brilliantly in there. Anyone got any top tips for french tarragon?? I try every year...

Windowsareforcheaters · 13/04/2019 15:28

We need to construct a pro nematode anti slug narrative that feeds into national pride while letting tender plants bloom and reach their full potential.

Mixed metaphor anyone?