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Brexit

Westminstenders: A False Sense of Security

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/04/2019 22:34

The new exit date, unless we agree a deal sooner, is the 31st October.

It seems ages away, but its runs the risk of a false sense of security too.

The first deadline is May 22nd. The Conservative Party would dearly like to avoid European Elections. They are already liable to face wipe out in the early May local elections, as the party was at its peak in 2015 under Cameron when there were last elections.

The EU elections have the added danger of proportional representation meaning UKIP and The Brexit Party could win seats from them. This is despite polling suggesting that Ukip and the Brexit Party are unlikely to reach the high watermark of 2015 and this could lead to fewer UKIP style MEPs this time round.

The liklihood of a deal by 22nd May is low though. Especially given how well Tory - Labour talks are going. The potential for a deal seems remote in the next few weeks.

The next deadline falls on 30th June. If we do have EU elections, the next target for the Tory Party is the end of June to get a deal before the newly elected MEPs can take their seats. However if the goal is unachievable before EU elections, it seems unlikely that agreement will be found in the next 30 days unless there is a major change of heart amongst the hardcore ERG and the DUP. Labour will want to see the Tories humiliated too much.

May who says she will go, will face another wave of pressure to resign during May and June. Messages out of No10, though not May herself, had indicated an exit around 22nd May on the condition a deal was done. Crafty as ever, what May actually said was she would stay on until we reached the second stage of Brexit and had effectively left. This now falls as late as Oct 31st, thus killing plans for a summer Tory leader election.

Once we get past June though, time for a deal, any deal starts to become very limited. Parliament only sits until mid July. Here May hits another problem. The two year parliamentary session ends. There has been talk of it being extended but the DUP have firmly said no to this.

This means when parliament is due to return in September we have an issue. To start a new session May will need a majority to pass a Queens Speech. If the DUP and Hardline ERGers withdraw support in protest at May still being PM what happens? Can May win support from elsewhere. It seems unlikely.

At this point the question of a General Election looms large. And we only have six weeks from then before we exit the EU. If a GE is triggered then, the risk of no deal is extremely high, which might encourage some to support May from across the aisle to prevent parliament from being shut and losing those crucial six weeks.

The danger over the next few weeks, is there is a false sense of there being lots of time left. The reality is our real deadline might be in effect the end of the parliamentary session in mid July. After that all bets are off.

The date of 31st October isn't the one you should keep your eyes on.

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BigChocFrenzy · 18/04/2019 23:34

Îf there had just been a referendum before the GFA negotiations, e.g.
"do you want peace ?"

it wouldn't have had any concrete effect on actually achieving peace, because it would just have been wishful thinking

Any referendum needs to be about approving specific actions with a defined plan or legal text
Otherwise, it's like putting a tooth under your pillow for the Tooth Fairy

prettybird · 19/04/2019 00:09

I didn't realise that the "biggest democratic exercise ever in the UK" really meant "the biggest democratic exercise for 24 years" Confused

It's a new meaning for the word "ever" to most of us me Hmm

Silly me Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 19/04/2019 00:11

Former Downing St bod:

Mats Persson@matsJpersson

I've been struck by the significant number of business that have chosen 1 June, not 31 Oct, as their new Brexit planning date,

not trusting that European elections will be held, or fearing some other bump in the road.

Trust is in very short supply out there...

Icantreachthepretzels · 19/04/2019 00:12

Any referendum needs to be about approving specific actions with a defined plan or legal text
Otherwise, it's like putting a tooth under your pillow for the Tooth Fairy

And now if you can just build a time machine and pop back to tell David Cameron that ...

BigChocFrenzy · 19/04/2019 00:13

pretty Being 62, I refuse to accept that more than 24 years ago is before history began !

BigChocFrenzy · 19/04/2019 00:17

Problem is that the Birth Fairy delivered for Cameron:

He was born into wealth and privilege, then married more of it and always expected it to continue
So he ran away when he saw the Brexit Fairy would only deliver a smelly dump of a disaster

prettybird · 19/04/2019 00:37

I'm 58 so I too remember a time when higher turnouts were normal Blush. I also remember too clearly my feeling of devastation at the 1992 result Sad

Although with hindsight, Major was not that bad! Hmm

I wish the journalists would call out the politicians more when they lie make the false claim about its "biggest ever" size in order justify why it can't possibly be subject to a PV (or reviewed as to whether it really is the best thing for the country.). It should be easy to point out to them that they are lying mistaken. Angry

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 19/04/2019 00:57

Have only had time to skim read today so sorry if this has already been posted

Good to see a Brexit supporting troll who sent death threats to MPs has been jailed.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/apr/18/internet-troll-jailed-over-threats-and-racist-messages-to-mps?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1555621552

Unfortunately it was only for ten months. He received five weeks for each of the threats, which seems a pitifully small sentence when you read some of the messages.

Unemployed Kirkman sent a message to Heidi Allen, of the Independent Group, saying: “Your days are fucking numbered bitch. Will it be polonium or novichok? Either way you will never know, expect it soon.”

In mitigation, Gregory Wedge said Kirkman acted as a carer for his mother, adding: “In this case, it’s very clear this is a stupid man who made a series of stupid decisions.”

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 19/04/2019 00:58

Just seen your update Sos so glad things up looking up for DGD.

LonelyTiredandLow · 19/04/2019 04:11

Yes great news dgd is up and about @Sos!

I did mention the bankruptcy/Farage situ a few days ago - am v. surprised other parties haven't picked up on this, or C4 (don't expect much from state broadcaster any more).

^The penalty orders, signed off by Bundestag President Wolfgang Schäuble,
amount to three times the value of the free advertising, which was estimated at €89,800 for Meuthen and €44,500 for Reil.^
This strikes me as a very sensible way to ensure the punishment fits the crime. Far preferable to the paltry fines doled out here for electoral fraud!

@singing - that troll actually looks a) just like a troll from the Read It Yourself Billy Goats Gruff only not blue b) Looks exactly how I imagine most keyboard warriors and male Leave voters to look. It's quite an achievement. Not sure his punishment fits his crime though Hmm.

LonelyTiredandLow · 19/04/2019 04:13

Am also wondering if
In mitigation, Gregory Wedge said Kirkman acted as a carer for his mother, adding: “In this case, it’s very clear this is a stupid man who made a series of stupid decisions.” is going to be the legal defence stance for the foreseeable...

mathanxiety · 19/04/2019 04:15

Sunshine1239 Thu 18-Apr-19 23:07:38
Seriously- you’re quoting data 20 years old?! I’m embarrassed for you

What tends to happen when the phrases 'in history', or 'ever', are used is that someone will look up the records.

Some of the records obv go back 20 years or more.

LonelyTiredandLow · 19/04/2019 04:28

Makes you wonder why the Empire is so important to many Leave voters, doesn't it @math Grin

mathanxiety · 19/04/2019 04:31
Grin
Mistigri · 19/04/2019 06:02

A young journalist was killed last night during republican violence/rioting in Derry.

From what I can gather the riots were triggered by police searching houses (presumably related to the wave of recent bomb attacks).

Hard not to blame brexiters for playing with fire :(

Mistigri · 19/04/2019 06:40

Seriously- you’re quoting data 20 years old?! I’m embarrassed for you

I'm not sure what's embarrassing about an interest in our recent political history.

Ignorance is pretty embarrassing though.

frumpety · 19/04/2019 07:41

I think some people might feel that 20 years is a long time ago. Epidemiologists might disagree ! To be able to determine patterns using data you often need to go years and years back.

Old data isn't bad data, bad data is bad data. Smile

Iambuffy · 19/04/2019 07:48

sunshine
You are great value. I'll give you that 😆😆😆😆😆

lonelyplanetmum · 19/04/2019 08:10

Just caught up with the thread - so glad Sos dgd is on the up.

It made me think about when my eldest DD got the start of septicaemia following an infected blister on a school sports camp. Assuming the NHS trend continues.. what will happen under the reconfigured privatised system? It's really ignorant of me ...but in the US if a child is seriously ill what happens if the parents haven't afforded insurance? Is there any state help for those under 18?
Off to google - I know I should know this.

Songsofexperience · 19/04/2019 08:17

@sos
So glad to hear your dgd is back home. She's lucky to have such a devoted nan.

lonelyplanetmum · 19/04/2019 08:19

Oh and errr the government ^ continuously spins the great 80% mandate in history^ in their email responses to petitions.

That invites the recipients of the emails to examine at least 20 years of history to verify the facts surely?

Since when was it acceptable for a government to email millions of households with weighted propaganda in between elections anyway? Although I suppose the hectoring tone detracts from any propaganda element.

1tisILeClerc · 19/04/2019 08:26

{Since when was it acceptable for a government to email millions of households with weighted propaganda in between elections anyway?}

I believe a similar sort of tactic is used in Russia and elsewhere, but taking the next step that if the ruling party really take a dislike to you then 'bad things happen in your life'.

Mistigri · 19/04/2019 08:27

I think some people might feel that 20 years is a long time ago.

People who think that politics started in 2016?

NoWordForFluffy · 19/04/2019 08:30

It's great news about Sos' granddaughter being home. I hope her platelets keep going up and get where they should be quickly. Flowers It's so hard seeing people you love seriously ill. I hope that you both get some good relaxing in this weekend, get some physical and mental recuperation for both of you.

I'm rather bemused about that sentence for the stupid person who did stupid things. I didn't think that stupidity was a defence, or something you could use in your mitigation plea. But I don't practise criminal law, so I'm not au fait with the ins and outs of it.

You have to be very dedicated to your cause to be involved in criminal law as it's generally terribly paid, in part because of the Legal Aid cuts. You have to be at the top of your game to earn well. The government is trying to squash every type of law which isn't corporate / City law. Who needs access to justice anyway? 😡

I was going to do a Masters in how the government's changes have led to the general population being unable to access justice, but the top-up Masters can't be funded by the postgraduate loan so I couldn't afford it.

Anyway, I can only imagine that access to justice will get even more impossible if the ERG nutters take control of Brexit and beyond.

Partial diversion over...it's one of the things I detest the Tories for, as their cuts affect the most vulnerable in society, as ever.

Oh, I had a response from my stupid MP yesterday. He totally ignored all of the stats in my email and basically waffled about delivering Brexit, not agreeing with the extension and not agreeing with cross party talks. He actually referred to such things as 'stealing Brexit'! He's such a knob, honestly. I really hope he loses his seat next time as he said that he wants to give his constituents what they want and listen to them by delivering Brexit. We were - narrowly - a remain constituency. Hmmm!

He clearly has a standard letter as he did not address ANY of the points I raised at all.

I tore his letter up, I was so angry with it! Proper fit of pique time, I can tell you.

NoWordForFluffy · 19/04/2019 08:34

The (bot? username with numbers on the end) leaver referring to 'ever' but then getting their knickers in a twist when proven wrong reminds me of the leaved for whom 60% is not a - convincing - majority, if it's even a majority at all. Isn't it funny how stats only matter when they support what Brexiters want to argue?!