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Brexit

Westminstenders: A False Sense of Security

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/04/2019 22:34

The new exit date, unless we agree a deal sooner, is the 31st October.

It seems ages away, but its runs the risk of a false sense of security too.

The first deadline is May 22nd. The Conservative Party would dearly like to avoid European Elections. They are already liable to face wipe out in the early May local elections, as the party was at its peak in 2015 under Cameron when there were last elections.

The EU elections have the added danger of proportional representation meaning UKIP and The Brexit Party could win seats from them. This is despite polling suggesting that Ukip and the Brexit Party are unlikely to reach the high watermark of 2015 and this could lead to fewer UKIP style MEPs this time round.

The liklihood of a deal by 22nd May is low though. Especially given how well Tory - Labour talks are going. The potential for a deal seems remote in the next few weeks.

The next deadline falls on 30th June. If we do have EU elections, the next target for the Tory Party is the end of June to get a deal before the newly elected MEPs can take their seats. However if the goal is unachievable before EU elections, it seems unlikely that agreement will be found in the next 30 days unless there is a major change of heart amongst the hardcore ERG and the DUP. Labour will want to see the Tories humiliated too much.

May who says she will go, will face another wave of pressure to resign during May and June. Messages out of No10, though not May herself, had indicated an exit around 22nd May on the condition a deal was done. Crafty as ever, what May actually said was she would stay on until we reached the second stage of Brexit and had effectively left. This now falls as late as Oct 31st, thus killing plans for a summer Tory leader election.

Once we get past June though, time for a deal, any deal starts to become very limited. Parliament only sits until mid July. Here May hits another problem. The two year parliamentary session ends. There has been talk of it being extended but the DUP have firmly said no to this.

This means when parliament is due to return in September we have an issue. To start a new session May will need a majority to pass a Queens Speech. If the DUP and Hardline ERGers withdraw support in protest at May still being PM what happens? Can May win support from elsewhere. It seems unlikely.

At this point the question of a General Election looms large. And we only have six weeks from then before we exit the EU. If a GE is triggered then, the risk of no deal is extremely high, which might encourage some to support May from across the aisle to prevent parliament from being shut and losing those crucial six weeks.

The danger over the next few weeks, is there is a false sense of there being lots of time left. The reality is our real deadline might be in effect the end of the parliamentary session in mid July. After that all bets are off.

The date of 31st October isn't the one you should keep your eyes on.

OP posts:
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BigChocFrenzy · 18/04/2019 18:33

facts

frumpety · 18/04/2019 19:04

Re the YouGov poll, I am always curious, how do you know who they have chosen to do the poll ? is it everyone ? how do you know if there has been a sudden influx of new respondents ?

BigChocFrenzy · 18/04/2019 19:04

On the subject of facts, I see that pp on another Brexit thread insist that
the UK govt stopping No Deal preparations means that there won't be No Deal 🙄

The FACT is that No Deal is what happens if the UK continue refusing to choose either Revoke or the WA
and just one of the E27 eventually vetos a further extension

Of course, the local and EP elections could break the political impasse .... but maybe not in a direction we'd like

Littlespaces · 18/04/2019 19:20

For Londoners - not sure if this has been posted

@politicshome

BREAKING: Labour NEC decides the party’s Euro candidates for London will be: 1) Claude Moraes 2) Seb Dance 3) Katy Clark (former Corbyn political secretary) and 4) Laura Parker (Momentum boss).

Apparently Claude, Seb and Laura are all very pro-EU, but Katy is a Lexiteer.

Iambuffy · 18/04/2019 19:21

Official that the local polling stations are booked for 23rd.
My mum's neighbour has a ukip poster in her window - her son marries a German girl next month....

RedToothBrush · 18/04/2019 19:29

Good news about the Labour list for London and the 2 sitting MEPs getting the nod for slots 1 and 2. They look like the only two 'safe' seats. If Katy Clark is a lexiter that could backfire...

OP posts:
ContinuityError · 18/04/2019 19:39

I’m from a very heavy leave area and haven’t ever voted in them and don’t know anyone who has. Turnout is always low.

Funny how something you literally had zero interest in for years suddenly became a burning issue in 2016.

People who never have or ever will vote normally will be out for a referendum

Yeah, cos the 42% turnout for the AV Referendum was huge Hmm

Whisky2014 · 18/04/2019 19:40

Do scottish people get to vote in the eu elections?

Whisky2014 · 18/04/2019 19:42

If I'm on the register of electerol do I still need to register to do the actual vote?

Westminstenders: A False Sense of Security
prettybird · 18/04/2019 19:58

You should be on the electoral register (only non-UK citizens need to register specially for the EP elections - and Scotland is still unfortunately in the opinion of some Wink part of the UK Grin)). There are no council elections in Scotland on 2 May.

Don't know about England, but in Scotland, you can ring up your local council (its website should have a link which gives you the number) to double check that you are on the register.

Sunshine1239 · 18/04/2019 20:00

Not sure I understand - it was 72% turnout for the referendum

Whisky2014 · 18/04/2019 20:01

Ok i definiyely am on the register because I remember going to the polling station in the last 2 years and ive only lived here 2.5

Ok thonk I'm getting mixed up with all the talk of registering to vote and people getting their cards through the door. How come Scotland doesn't have a vote on 2nd may? Do we have council elections at another time then?

havingtochangeusernameagain · 18/04/2019 20:07

How come Scotland doesn't have a vote on 2nd may? Do we have council elections at another time then

Yes. I think London does too. Where I am we tend to get a vote every time there is a local election because the candidates aren't all elected at the same time, there is a rotation system. And then we have local/district council elections and county council elections - whereas some areas have unitary authorities.

Whisky2014 · 18/04/2019 20:08

I see! Ok thanks :)

NoWordForFluffy · 18/04/2019 20:12

I feel like I'm always voting!

We got our voting papers through for the locals today, so I'll pop that in the post tomorrow. Then it won't be that long until the next one!

prettybird · 18/04/2019 20:16

The Scottish council elections (which use STV) were last year. The next ones will be 2022.

QueenOfThorns · 18/04/2019 20:24

Not sure I understand - it was 72% turnout for the referendum

ContinuityError was referring to the Alternative Vote referendum in 2011, not the 2016 referendum.

Sunshine1239 · 18/04/2019 20:29

Thanks

I was talking about turnout for a brexit referendum being totally different to any election etc

NoWordForFluffy · 18/04/2019 20:33

You said 'a referendum', hence pointing out the AV percentage. If you meant the 2016 referendum specifically you could have stipulated that.

Sunshine1239 · 18/04/2019 20:42

I was referring to brexit opinion - wasn’t hard was it

ContinuityError · 18/04/2019 20:53

You said you turn out to vote in referendums.

If you didn’t vote in the AV referendum (unless you were too young) then that’s not true. You voted in a referendum.

And by your own admission you and your friends couldn’t be bothered to vote in EP elections.

It’s like you had zero interest in taking part in the EU democratic process at any point. Until the Leave campaign made the EU into a nasty bogeyman and then suddenly it was important.

Excuse me for being so cynical.

Peregrina · 18/04/2019 20:55

only non-UK citizens need to register specially for the EP

Not quite. If you are an EU citizen you can choose which country you vote in. But citizens of Ireland, Malta & Cyprus - the last two being Commonwealth members, don't have to register specially.
See www.gov.uk/elections-in-the-uk/european-parliament

There are different rules for N Ireland.

Peregrina · 18/04/2019 21:06

Excuse me for being so cynical.

I do so agree with you. I have been asking Leavers how they voted in the EU elections for the better part of three years now. Until today, it's been I don't vote I can't be arsed have some fine high sounding principle as to why I can't turn out to the polling station but which is a load of hogwash. Today I finally got one positive response, and it was from someone who voted Tory.

Yet we have been treated to constant lectures about democracy, what is it we don't understand? Considerably more than the average Leaver - who immediately give the game away by saying things like 'People don't know who their MEP is'. If they knew about the election, they would know that there is no such thing. But I leave this as an exercise for Leavers to look up.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/04/2019 21:07

I wish the UK would tackle dirty money fed illegally to the far right parties.
Some countries do.

Fabian Zuleeg@FabianZuleeg

Going after illegal financing of populist or extremist parties
especially where they receive public money
has always been one of the most effective ways of hindering their progress....*
*
Germany’s AfD hit with hefty fine in donations scandal

In Germany, free advertising received by party members is illegal support

https://mobile.twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/1118559824042713088

The German parliament has imposed a hefty fine on the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) over "illegal" campaign donations from a Swiss-based company.

On Tuesday, the Bundestag's administrative body informed the AfD that it has to pay a €402,900 fine
.....
AfD co-leader and MEP Jörg Meuthen and Guido Reil, an MEP candidate for the party, previously admitted to accepting undeclared campaign support from Goal AG, a public relations agency based in Switzerland.

They used the agency's free advertising in regional election campaigns between 2016 and 2017.

The penalty orders, signed off by Bundestag President Wolfgang Schäuble,
amount to three times the value of the free advertising, which was estimated at €89,800 for Meuthen and €44,500 for Reil.
.....
The Swiss campaign support for Meuthen and Reil is only one part of a larger donations scandal engulfing the AfD, which could face further fines.

ContinuityError · 18/04/2019 21:12

I was talking about turnout for a brexit referendum being totally different to any election etc

It wasn’t.

Between 1922 and 1997, turnout at UK general elections remained above 71%.